[95] Unnecessary Baggage

Friday, May 30, 2008 at 5:35am

After getting done reading this article (no longer available), I’m sitting in awe wondering why people would take on the baggage entailed with the Christian title. Let’s take something like nationality first. My family is partly Serbian and therefore whenever something happens in what used to be Yugoslavia, my dad and uncles are compelled to talk up the Serbs and explain all the history behind the conflict and ultimately rationalize why our heritage is on the “right” side. Now it only takes a few news articles and common sense to tell you that anybody in a war time situation who pulled off shit the Serbs have done, would be considered assholes and counterproductive. Does this mean that everybody who’s Serbian now is violent or perpetuating conflict…of course not. Here’s the problem though. I can listen to a story from my family and still say “well ya, but the Serbs shouldn’t have done such and such” and at the very least acknowledge the situation for what it is. I guess I’m a “moderate Serb” because I’ll go to church functions every now and then for the food, but the whole understanding the culture or speaking the language….never really got through to me. Now in some sense the whole notion of guilty by association still exists, even though it would appear that I am so far removed from that situation it shouldn’t apply. No, nobody is going to alienate themselves from me or ignore the giant elephant in the room that is my “Serb violence problem” but if there’s a joke to be made or a conversation to start, I’m at least marginally expected to have a few contributing lines if I’m asserting just how Serbian I in fact am. (This is why I usually remain silent when I encounter someone who I know is Serbian.) Now I can’t abandon where I came from, and don’t want to, but on the other hand I do not have to jump into any and every situation that would emphasize that part of me. I believe Christians should follow in that groove.

Do you Christians ever think about all the baggage you claim when “your people” perpetuate some of the dumbest initiatives to plague the planet since the Dark Ages? Like I stated above, in the obvious sense you are not responsible for all the negative that comes from your religion, but in a more important sense there is something you are responsible for. You are responsible for flying the colors and perpetuating the name, and yet you seemingly ignore that your spreading more than some loving message. Christian takes on countless connotations, which for me, is enough to hate labels and always inquire as to what the personal is actually talking about. How can you where the name proudly when millions of people who would cheer just as loud would deny evolution and persecute homos? Why allow someone to barrage you with jokes about gay preachers and zombie like adherence to indoctrination? Some of the common responses I get are “We Christian’s are used to being persecuted for our views, we can handle it” or “We can’t help that others believe differently than us, the devil works in mysterious ways, and besides those people aren’t me personally.” You know the same “me” that is always going to be right and conspicuously shows up in every religion. All of that crap completely misses the point. As if I need two forms of ID to understand your not a pedophile priest, you try to wash away all the real issues that are trying to be discussed for the sake of saving your own skin. Quite selfish. Is this not what we see time and time again though? How many note comments have I gotten starting out with some spiel about the devil, how terrible humanity is, why Jesus is so loving etc. and no one saying “Wow, millions of Christians trying to hinder education with creationism, maybe I should read, learn, or say something about that.” I don’t understand why people should have to be spoon fed the correct ways to think or react to a situation like that. “Hey, another kid got a little more than he bargained for as altar boy? Maybe I should write a letter asking for better background checks or rally to allow these guys to get married.” My little contribution of speaking out the silliness of all religion is what I consider contributing to my part, but come on, you people act like there’s you, and them, from which they can endlessly be thought of as lost and crazy, and you’ll just sit back incubating in your faith. If you want to associate, then feel the blunt of that association.

This girl I went to high school decided in her salutation to say “good night and god bless” to which I inquired “which god.” Her response, “The one that created everything.” It was a foregone conclusion that 1. A god existed 2. It blessed people 3. Has the ability to create and 4. Indeed created what we perceive as everything. Nitpicky? Or maybe a god can’t stand under the scrutiny. What actually bothered me more was her knowing my views, and just blatantly ignoring them for the sake of her being able to get the sentence out. I don’t know, after reading the article I just feel like when your only goaded on by your inner circle who are just as reluctant to forego their beliefs or ask difficult questions as you, it’s time to get a second opinion. I wish I had someone as anxious as I am to just copy one of my blogs and go through point by point why they think I sound ridiculous. Then at least I’d have an opportunity defend and discuss instead of just assert like I’m some authority. Read the article about how easy it is, even for someone who is dying on the inside of intellectual rage, to be swept along with the motions and understand what it’s like to question whether the outside Christian shell or the inside outrage is really them at that moment. I don’t care how long and hard that shell has been fought for, your head needs to exist outside of it. The many atheists and atheist comments I encounter are people referencing books and articles where people can learn more, comments about the plight of humanity and organized email floods of protest to people threatening intellectual sanctity. And as someone put it, organizing atheists is a bit like herding cats, yet their common concern for humanity is what motivates them. It doesn’t take fairy tales about demon beasts and flying men to make them care. Is it some form of jealously perhaps? These godless heathens are so smart and sincere, and all for something you can’t feel and understand? This I certainly hope is not the case because it’s too stupid and too easily fixable. It isn’t portending to be intellectual or gleeful in sin that makes them different than you. What makes them different and more significant to me is their passion. Me, having all but forgone hope for our extended existence, can experience things from these people I’ve never felt in the presence of the faithful. I can’t help but think that the faithful were always missing a certain pride or sincerity because, by their own admittance, it’s all for and from Jesus.

So what atheist baggage is there to take on? None. I get to take on the free and clear position of just being an person with opinions because atheism isn’t a group or rule. I have my responsibility to people and nature, as we all do, but it will never be “Group of conservative atheists” headlining anything crazy in the headlines. This is not because the people in the news room understand the logical absurdity in the sentence either. This is simply because that is not how people who have a mind for critical analysis and endless questions behaves when faced with something they disagree with. There is no major stigma for caring or learning too much. This is what I’m trying to convey to the Christians when I refer to their baggage. If they simply stood for love, compassion, inquiry, doubt, and so on, we effectively remove every potential for bullshit like a creationism bill to move onto the Louisiana House floor. We never have to pretend like stem cells are crying babies and can’t be used to ease the suffering of the millions of people who can and do feel pain. We no longer have to indulge Dinesh D’Souza in debates to be attacked on grounds that pertain to absolutely nothing of which the event was formulated. We need to cut away the inculcated ideas lending praise to endless “respect” for people’s beliefs. Actively search out opportunities to be humbled in your ignorance and then you will find the opportunity to grow. Then you can see what it is you should know and how you should behave in order to expect respect. Getting dunked in a kiddy pool and pretending to drink blood does not bestow this upon you.

Ok well I’m hot and need to be up in three hours, peace.

6 comments

Brian Morrow (Indiana State) wroteat 7:05pm on May 30th, 2008 ummmm, stem cells... For real, I literally have to punch my chest to swallow, but I CAN'T make a fucking fist!! Hoiw fucked up is that!? SCORE: Nick & anti-Christian thought : 73 (how many notes have you written?) Mainstream Christian belief : (maybe seven-ish or so?) Report - Delete

Cara Zimmerman (Chicago, IL) wroteat 10:08pm on June 2nd, 2008 ''I just feel like when your only goaded on by your inner circle who are just as reluctant to forego their beliefs or ask difficult questions as you, it’s time to get a second opinion.'' i definitely agree with that statement. people always seem to run from opposition to their religion or whatever. but i think, if someone seriously and honestly believes something, why should they be afriad of people arguing with them or asking something they don't know? then they can investigate and see if their beliefs hold up to reality. and i wouldn't consider christianity a ''rule'' and i don't feel like my life is hindered in any way because of my beliefs. Report - Delete

Michele Elizabeth Zerbe wroteat 2:20pm on June 11th, 2008 im all for just letting it be, let people do what they want. everyone thinks theyre enlightened or know something grand that the persoon next to them does not. why keep score? is it really a competition? and i agree with cara. of course people who are outside a collection of beliefs are going to see whats "wrong" with it. and i agree with cara. but why isnt opinion enough? since when does everything have to be proved or given reason? if someone says they believe something but can and never would be able to prove its existence in the physical world, why be criticized for just believing in it out of faith? i am completely going off topic. Report - Delete

Michele Elizabeth Zerbe wroteat 2:21pm on June 11th, 2008 like u told me, people are responsible for making themselves happy. that is such an excellent goal in life. if religion helps someone find happiness, even if was theoretically completely fake and made up and delusional and "wrong," if it makes them happy, whats the big deal? its their life and their choices. hostility just seems so counterproductive even though its constant in life in general. i guess thats the end. peoples lives are what they make of them. Report - Delete

Nick P. wroteat 4:51pm on June 11th, 2008 The problem isn't "religion" making someone happy. The problem is believing something without evidence. When we allow people to take on views that they can't support or even barely explain without referencing gut feelings or faith, we allow them to act irrationally. Take racism. Someone says they hate niggers because niggers are black. Any objectively reasoned person will look at that logic and think of them as a retarded bigot. How does "God exists because god exists to me" sound then? People don't fight and waste time arguing about gay marriage, stem cells, and evolution without they're baseless religious impulses, and that cannot be accepted for the sake of their happiness. I will always be hostile to people attacking reason and scientific progress, not necessarily claiming a religion. Delete

Michele Elizabeth Zerbe wroteat 5:08pm on June 11th, 2008 no big deal about not claiming religion, because thats u. i mean many many religions are based on a god or gods or concepts that require faith. that is the bottom line of many religions across the globe. lots of people love the concept of being able to feel something or believe in it without having to see it with our eyes or feel it with our hands, senses and other means that are limited by our human/physical bodies thats what makes some people happy is trying see beyond themselves and whatever existence we have. even the perhaps crazy notion of something else or something greater comforts them. thats their perogative.

[94] Take 2 Pills And Get The Hell Out Of My Office

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 4:22am

Are we really that far up our own asses? Yes.

I laughed hysterically at a picture of a starving child in Africa being overlooked by a crow with the caption “Patience, good things come to those who wait.” What I’m trying to illustrate with that example is how little we give a shit about our fellow man. You can infer as to how this would apply to the majority of the religious, but that’s not really my focus at this point. I watched this absolutely badass documentary on apes regarding how smart they are and in what ways they learn. Given that I am not in denial about our origins, I couldn’t help but see how deeply the consequences of their less developed faculties still ran among us. One researcher noted that the difference between manslaughter and murder is intent, which is something that apes can recognize. Unfortunately, the problem for apes is that they do not appear to be thinking about what is going on in any other apes head than their own; from which follows cooperation problems and behavioral issues. Dog’s can understand your intent by pointing in a certain direction for their lost toy, apes can’t. It seems apparent to me that though we have learned to cooperate enough to “advance” as far as we have, we have yet to shake our heritage of me and mine. What makes us so much worse is that we can reflect and dwell on how we are to realize our desires. We’re naturally selected to be mind readers, which means our power can and is turned inward against us. Does everyone fall slave to the plagues of serious introspection? Almost certainly.

I can hold what would seem to be two conflicting and opposite ideas about myself. At any given time I know what I’m capable of be it being the nicest most helpful person in the room, and also the guy who would barely hesitate before shooting someone like Dinesh D’Souza in the face. How do I balance? By trying to make choices that lead me towards laughter and fun. I truly and honestly feel like I have enough pent up whatever mess to snap in a situation appropriate, but ultimately it is more likely to translate into less fun. I don’t think, hell, I’m very very sure many people do not think like I do. I can’t seem to talk to anybody without them feeling like I’m trying to get “philosophical” and deep with them. This I don’t understand. Yes, I think, write, read, and watch a lot of things, but does that mean we should just tone that down and concentrate on how to make a banal conversation about Souja Boy or math class keep a flow of “normality?” It really bugs me that I have hundreds of “friends” on facebook and myspace and have come across maybe four or five people who have sort of “ranted” for maybe a few weeks. The best I get now is my RA’s daily update about his activities in Texas. I want to know if people have strong opinions they wish to talk about, or if that many lights are on with no one home. If they do in fact have it in them to write for, what was it like 7 hours one of my blogs took me, then what’s stopping them? If I’m thinking too much it’s all I can do to just write and see where it takes me in order to get rid of a headache, no joke. Maybe one thing holding them back is all the “normal” responses they get when someone reads their work. I talk to enough people who can bitch about their lives with little prompting, and when I find their digression in a blog, what do their friends have to tell them? “Hang in there, life is full of stuff like this.” “Wow, that sucks, hope things turn out ok.” “You’ve always got a friend right here to pump you full of positive words you’ve heard a thousand times before.” “Man that’s soooo deep.” I do not feel like this helps anybody.

Perhaps the way to make any real sort of progress with our capacity to read minds and work together, we need to be honest about what were thinking about, and secure with what we’re capable of. When a certain someone had issues with dickhead boyfriend, though granted this is a common phenomenon, who was the asshole that said just how fucked up the situation was and stood against abuse, manipulation, and guilt? Right here buddies. And for those cold blooded enough to think about my craziness for the girl as motivation can basically lick my balls as I have said, and will continue to say, the same things to any girl or guy who’s dealing with such a common sense problems. Does everyone have to actually be in the situation to truly know why it’s different and why we should “respect” the decisions being made? HELL NO. Why would we develop the capacity for empathy and understanding if we’re going to throw it in the dirt when a problem easily fixed by exercising it can be alleviated? Why did I just give up and tell my friend to go ahead with his plan to convince his girlfriend that Ex and her could co-exist peacefully? Because I’m well aware that people will let you down and not everyone can handle my way of thinking. I just said fuck it because I was essentially forced to “respect” the other fully capable and radically free human being’s decision. This is a serious point to take note of, this is where the power is expressed, but not where you are looking for it. We exert our intentions against everyone else’s, yet as in a tragic comedy, the ridiculousness of our attempt plays out in a contradiction. We are our own keepers and shepherds who allow ourselves a rut of complacency when things aren’t panning out the way we feel they should. As much as I would like to feel “my words” actively change anything in anybody, I know they are the ones doing any convincing. Developing the capacity to recognize an illusion of “comunity” or “for the common good,” some formula existing independent of our thoughts, is what helped drive our minds to the level they’re at today. While we are constantly one part in a billion that contributes to some problem flirting with ending our civilization, we can’t seem to agree on anything, absolutely anything, to hold up as the Human Agenda from which our progress can be judged. Is this because it doesn’t exist or just too misunderstood for us to start defining?

I want fun and happiness, others want justice and due process, and others still want love, mischief, capitalization, greed, fairness, etc. We believe there is this human ideal or human capacity that makes us special, and indeed there is. The ability to have this belief alone. I’ve talked about how dominating fear is upon our species, and why wouldn’t it be? When people don’t feel justified, or loved, or fulfilled are they not expected to be afraid of what the future may hold? Not everyone will curl up into a little ball and rock back and forth, but would drugs and alcohol be so prevalent if they didn’t take your mind off your interminable thoughts and feelings? Would people resort to violence if they didn’t think about what the other guy thought about what they may be thinking? I would argue that many people can’t handle it, nor know how to express it. Let’s disappear into the dream life of popularity perhaps, where I am just playing a humble part, no need to contemplate my actions, no room for me to express my abject feelings. This is why I feel that humanity is ultimately a doomed race. We have self conditioned ourselves to the illusion of order and intention, where none exists, and it is flatly depressing. Take that look back in time at our relatives who are focused on the treat, will learn how to get the treat, then may punch you in the face. Our capacity for self control is our placebo of security. It has become our goal to refine that capacity, if only because it is the only thing we can all truly agree on. Religion anyone?

So what would be something better for which to satisfy the craving of the frontal lobe? My vote goes for the only thing that has ever brought me down to a manageable level, overriding the waves of feelings, and motivating my will to write in futility. Knowledge. When we become scientifically passionate we will be able to find better answers if only because they exist independent of ourselves alone. Getting to “know god” can begin to feel like the backwater remedy for solving a problem that it is. When polled, there were only 2 people that raised their hand in my ethics class that would give up their intellectual pleasures at the prospect of mind blowing sexual ecstasy. If this doesn’t speak to the failings of physically aesthetic indulgence, I’m not sure what does. Shooting for romantic love allows you to put your ::cough:: mind in a tight and warm place, which I think says more about our intentions than the person we claim to be in love with.

I want people to understand that when I say I know where they’re coming from, I really think I do, and still maintain my answers and arguments of which I’m happy to elaborate on or perhaps, through conversation, find more clarity about. There are a million and one self help books and new age remedies popping up alongside the old time religion, but do any of them truly understand you, The Individual? Self help blatantly shoots itself in the foot because it really is about helping yourself. Helping yourself to the wealth of knowledge that you can find just by thinking, reading, and writing. I never say something like “put my ideas on a wall as the law of the land in order to bring about what this race really needs” because I’m honest about how far, why, and who my blogs will or won’t resonate with. And please understand that when I say honest, I mean honest as it pertains to my head. It isn’t “honestly, if you follow my advice everything will be okay….” so not my bag to take on the scrutiny of turning out horribly wrong. At least you don’t have to burn in hell if you disagree with me right? ;)

5 comments

Updated about 6 months ago

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 4:39pm on May 27th, 2008 Got to tell you nick, it was more difficult to follow along your ramblings then usual, but i think i caught the underlying message.. I've never considered just HOW selfish human nature was, mind you i've always known humans are quite centered around themselves. I've thought before about society and all the many broken systems we have and find myself thinking that, on a smaller scale, societies and civilizations work much better, and have fewer.. consequences, i'll say, then on the scales of such today (ie 300 million in the U.S as opposed to say (a rough guess) 50,000 of ancient Greece. Even smaller scales, small rural cities of today of say 2000 seem to work even better. I speculate, in light of what you've brought up, this could be because there are fewer people besides yourself to think about. There's enough people to keep yourself entertained and fed etc. etc. without the need to think about the needs and wants of too many other people. On the national scale on the other hand. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 4:45pm on May 27th, 2008 ..There's simply too many people with too many different needs and wants to keep everybody happy, because everybody is putting what THEY want first and fuck anybody else. Constantly people try to come to agreements and middle ground but its against out very nature, and we seek to get what we want even after making agreement, inevitably fucking ourselves and others because we made a deal we didn't really want to make.. As far as seeking knowledge goes i think it's a FANTASTIC idea, and it's probably been proposed before, is likely the only reason civilization as such has lasted as long as it has, and the reason it's advanced the way it did. That being said, as many of us that our out there seeking knowledge there seem to be 10 times as many seeking all the other pleasures of life.. I'm really not sure where i'm going here but i feel inspired so i'll keep writing. While i do agree on the whole that people are selfish, i can't help disagreeing with you in such that not everyone is... Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 4:50pm on May 27th, 2008 ..completely so at anyrate. Perhaps some people are more evolved if you will, their minds more developed for whatever reason, or maybe other minds are simply less developed (which i wouldn't be surprised to find at the rate we pump ourselves full of thousands upon thousands of chemicals etc.. etc..). Anyway, i have to admit sometimes i feel like doing nice things for other people for no reason at all. Of course sometimes i feel like doing mean things for no reason at all so i suppose it could be a selfish impulse after all, but it does make me wonder.. maybe we're gradually starting to be less selfish (definitely not on the whole.. as a whole i would say people are more selfish then ever... or maybe it's more acceptable to show it now a days.. o i don't know) well i completely lost my train of thought, and i'm hungry, so until your next rambling.. Report - Delete

Nick P. wroteat 11:36pm on May 27th, 2008 the times i seem to make the most sense to myself, things turn out harder to follow. My bad Mr. Bowman Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 6:24am on May 28th, 2008 Haha.. it's not your fault, if i wrote half as much as you about what i think about all the time, it wouldn't even be half as coherent.

[93] When There's Just Never Nothing To Say

Saturday, May 24, 2008 at 6:46am

::commercial announcer voice:: Did you know there is an answer to the biased views expressed on Wikipedia? Is there a place that doesn’t demean and censor the truth like godless Youtube? Well folks, Conservapedia and Godtube are for you. If you’re a conservative Christian who wants to take America back to the Dark Ages, don’t forget to spend part of your daily devotions on these sites. You’ll learn such fun facts including all the failings of evolution, how Hitler was an atheist, and the perfectness of bananas fitting into your hand which shine the light on the truth of God. Too old for your Christ action figure? Tired of reading the same old passages in church? Take a gander at Conservapedia and Godtube and you’ll be well on your way to damning the human race. Ah, who are we kidding we’re all damned to begin with ::chuckle, ha, cheesy smile::

I aim my rants at Christianity because that’s what I’m most familiar with. Don’t get me wrong, the second I don’t have to worry about getting assassinated I’ll write more about the failings of Islam and maybe one day Scientology. I just think when something’s that obvious who am I to step on the toes of Sam Harris, Ayan Hirsi-Ali, or Pat Condell. I just couldn’t refrain from saying something at least about those two places above. I’ve talked about Godtube before so quick note, every video is either how you can pray, the faults of evolution, or a hell scare video. Conservapedia I just found tonight. This site actually listed five scientists and said “….did not propose the theory of evolution.” Ummm….. It also has over 200 sources from which it compiled why evolution is a theory in crisis. I think we need to take a moment and remind the Christians to take a step back and smell what they’re shoveling. You can make a shit pile as tall as that Lego tower recently in the news, but please, don’t think it’s anything more than shit. If Christian stood for anything more than denial of facts and irrational behavior, I might slide more easily into the category Mr. Bowman subscribes to “Christian-ish” or perhaps moderate Christianity. Unfortunately, this is not the case and virus sites like AIG and creationweb inspire people to spawn offspring and paint such a lovely picture of what you become associated with when you take on that title. Obviously, it isn’t places like this alone that should keep you away, but they help as reminders. Ignorance tells you evolution is a belief system. You acknowledge facts, you don’t have to believe in them.

I need to have this question answered. Does it not bother you to watch the world remain chaotic and desperate? If the truth of any religion was so powerful and compelling, why hasn’t it won out and proven itself? If it’s the responsibility of every Christian to go out and spread the word, why is so much effort put into insolating the base already in place? When church is no longer enough, you go to bible study. When bible study gets tedious you go to camps. When camps start to fail you join support groups. When support groups fail you find some Christian oriented program that’s geared toward an interest of yours that has nothing to do with lessons from Christianity. And if those faithful aren’t having enough problems, imagine the people being told to pray and abstain from condoms if they want to eat.

I’m going to argue that there’s no such thing as a Christian who “knows god” in any capacity beyond stories they heard about Jesus. Think about it like this. The most logical of the apologetics will admit that they cannot empirically prove god. This is just a common sense fact. So by definition they have to be agnostic. There is no choice here, I’m not discussing your choice “level” of faith. So what would you call an agnostic who believed in Santa? Perhaps a child, misinformed, or deluded yet still hopeful and happy. The Christians who are bold enough to say they know anything about God are at best happy hopeful agnostic deluded children. Now slow down and realize I didn’t say “Christ’s teachings followers,” I said people who claim to “know God.” This is going to piss someone off so prove me wrong.

So onto those “Christ followers.” The ones who explicitly follow what Jesus said or did and any mumbo jumbo they don’t understand that layeth elsewhere in the bible can remain laying. Does it matter to them that “Jesus quotes” appear in books and documents well before Jesus? His miracles painted on Egyptian walls and frequently performed by those ghastly pagan gods. I guess they like to ignore the part where he goes on about enforcing the laws of the old testament, you know the juicy ones, and not abolishing them…hmm. I have this little idea of history where stuff that came earlier is probably the originator of something that came after that carries striking similarities. That’s just me though. If an Egyptian god gave Jesus his material, so to speak, why isn’t he considered important? Granted, this is oversimplifying. The overall point remains. The bible was humanly written, “inspired by god” seems to be an off the cuff response to the simple minded who couldn’t help but point out the obvious human flaws and similarities of the past. I took a science and the occult class will give you too much detail between Christianity and its origins.

Also, I’m so sick of hearing about the truth of prophecy I could shit. There was no channel 5 reporting on the day to day activities of Jesus. He wasn’t part of the original Real World cast. Writing the story of someone you only know from previous stories does not, will never, and never has lent any credence to the integrity of a prophecy. Jesus’ life is a compilation of word of mouth stories that were agreeable enough to make it into the bible. The passing documents that refer to him, or more likely a “Christos,” independent of the bible or apocryphal texts are not in agreement with what you’ll read in the aforementioned texts. I’ve had people ask me “how could Jesus choose to be born on the predicted day?” Aside from the absolute ludicrous amount this man doesn’t know about how Jesus’ birthday was originated ehem assigned, I suppose an even simpler answer would be the son of god can do whatever the fuck he wants. And shouldn’t the power of faith not need something so concrete as fulfilled prophecy anyways? Looks like someone back then understood faith is in what you can make someone swallow, and not just in remaining alive while choking on it. You take all of that and put it on a prophecy that’s as vague as a Ms. Cleo readin’ and you tell me why I should believe you. When the bible predicts the lotto or the next Katrina I’ll be interested.

Didn’t you know these blogs are inspired by god? O, you’ll scoff and think I’m mocking you, but truly I say unto you the only way to the Father is through these blogs. The big secret though is this. God will only allow those into heaven that have enough gusto to disbelieve in him. Despite all the proof he has given us like a home on a dangerous planet spiraling through an infinitely cold universe, natural disasters, and sewage through our pleasure centers, you need to just forgo your old notions to be saved. Are you willing to risk it just going along with those passé ideas about your faith like they’re going to save you? Something that can work that easily only works on those eager to buy it.

I wanted to keep this short with the sales add for those dumbass sites, but when you’ve got nothing else to do….

3 comments

Updated about 6 months ago

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 11:41am on May 24th, 2008 Woot! I was referenced in a rant! i feel special... As for the retards calling wikipedia biased.. i'm speechless. I really can't find words to describe.. how that makes me feel. It only strengthens my feelings that hardcore christians and some of the most retarded people on earth. I say hardcore christians because many who call themselves christians, are in fact not and only call themselves this as they've been raised that way or don't know what to believe, but its these ones that study and believe without question what they read.. they are dangerously stupid... Perhaps it's not even just limited to christians, but anyone who does not question and seek answers for themselves, in any aspect of life.... yes i think that is far more likely... but christians are no doubt a shining example in this country. As for godtube, if they just posted their videos on youtube, and let whoevers out there looking for that kind of thing... i bet they're videos would get a lot more hits. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 11:54am on May 24th, 2008 The rest of your rant as always bring up good points, and more thoughts and questions about what exactly it is i believe... but believe makes it sound like i must have some sort of religion, and thats not it as all.. it's more.. answers that i'm seeking.. well.. at anyrate. I'm appreciative of them. Hopefully i'll be able to figure it out sometime soon. Report - Delete

Michele Elizabeth Zerbe wroteat 2:39pm on June 11th, 2008 its unfortunate that so many people use different religions as labels for other people. just like the ignorant people who believe anyjew is liberal and ceremonial, or that any man believing in alah must be out to destroy something American, people use christianity as a scapegoat for a lot of things. sometimes just bad experiences can prompt such habits. if i picked a religion and stood everyone id ever met side by side who claimed that religion, id likely have trouble finding anything else in common about them. its foolish to belive that all "christians" act the same way or "cause the same problems" or belive the exact same things. which is exactly why there is so much gray area in the christian religion. lots of people assume that if they believe in "God" than thats automatically christian. or some people who separate themseles morally but hold onto their "title." reading some of your little notes almost tempts me to feel guilty, but that goes away as soon as i see how base that is.

[92] Is The Title The Only Thing That Would Make You Read It?

Friday, May 23, 2008 at 8:46am

I just got done watching a documentary hosted by Dr. Robert Beckford here which attempts to investigate the real story behind the actual Jesus. I must say that I don’t understand people like Dr. Beckford and I disagree with his approach to the question. In case you’re not as interested in watching as I was the run down is Dr. Beckford talking with heads of Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism and finding out where their stories and notions about Jesus intersect with what we’re all brought up to learn as matter of fact. He also goes to Egypt and reports on the stories and depictions of Osiris and later of Mithras and they’re commonalities as well. To be fair Dr. Beckford appears to be genuinely sincere in his beliefs and has devoted much of his time and understanding towards seeing how the teachings of Jesus can breed peace and love. That said, I don’t believe he accurately portrays how the world views the question, nor they’re immediate unwillingness to take the pervasive, but thoughtful, road Beckford would prescribe. I also believe he does a disservice to those healthy ideals which can stand on their own merits without being bestowed from a deity.

The fact of the matter is that, the 1/5th of the world that thinks Jesus was a Muslim prophet, does not accept anything that any semi to mainstream Christian would try to convey to them. It is one thing to talk with a Muslim intellectual and wade through borderline misleading questions, and quite another to think they’re ready to accept Jesus’ teachings alone and begin that personal relationship. They do not think he was the son of God, let alone a manifestation of God, so hyping up that the Muslim’s believe he was taken up to heaven as a prophet who had a fake crucified in his place seems disingenuous. Of course there are always the struggling fringe groups who try to balance their heritage with the message of Jesus, but their failing track record does not lend credence to the culture lightening up on their ideas about Jesus.

When talking to the Buddhists, Beckford tried to say something like “When I read something from the Buddha that parallels with Jesus, I’m kind of following Jesus through the Buddha” in an enthusiastic tone. The monk could only squeamishly smile and say that he could respect that if its truly how Beckford wanted to look at things. I think there is a tragic flaw in trying to take your perhaps awesomely optimistic and pretty worldview and convince everybody just how awesomely optimistic they could be if they were only as understanding as you. By going out and trying to show that he is a “Christian” in whatever all inclusive sense he holds, he low-balls those who’s faith was perhaps solidified on one of those stories that now has been shown to tread through many cultures. He is a perfect representation of someone who can rationalize anything and still maintain that he is a Christian even when he probably understands more of the particulars than many of us would ever care to hear about. Now wouldn’t the world be a better place if everyone could just get as informed and uplifted by the method Beckford has chosen to stay secure in his faith? I think yes and no.

If one can’t just believe in the ideas of love and compassion alone, then what good are the ideas? It goes back to the Euthyphro dilemma from my ethics class. Are ideas holy because of some innate property or are they holy because the gods say so? If it just “is” holy then why do we need a god to tell us so, if the gods have to deem it as such then what’s to stop them from deeming anything holy? How do we decide between two conflicting “holinesses” when they come from the same source? This issue arises any time you deem it necessary to introduce God into your logic. Do you honestly believe there are lessons that can only be handed to us, despite the wealth of knowledge we’ve tapped into by studying history, philosophy, and science? Apes are the only species that murder. There’s obviously no lesson to be learned by looking at the rest of the animal spectrum. The business of equivocating those methods most conducive to survival with your personal ideas about those methods most conducive to survival always lose against the “extra you” that is fighting for them. I personally was digging on what the Buddhist guy was saying when he noted that there is no one who wants to be unhappy and from that standpoint is where we should start when trying to spread any message. From no divine agenda or wishy washy perspective they manage to achieve the same “levels of consciousness” and teach rival messages that you simply can’t disagree with if you are a healthy human being. You don’t have to believe anything about Buddha to state you don’t want to suffer and like to be happy. If you don’t know the value of sitting and thinking I’m amazed you’ve made it far enough to read my blog.

While the message from the documentary is that of an interconnectedness that may help facilitate understanding and negotiation between cultures, I seem to have seen something more simple. History is a series of events heavily influenced by countless forces and motivations. One universal motivation of a struggling rational race would be understanding and tribal cohesiveness. You really need to pretend like you know nothing about the world to appreciate the kind of mind people had when they heard about magical saviors and divine beings. When this super secret of all secrets tells you something, like proselytize and convert, you're damn well going to do it. When back then, just as now, you believe there is one overriding central message that spearheads your idea, and those messy details can remain as such, it is easy to understand why the world religions have many points of parallels yet remain in utter defiance of each other. People who feel an injustice or live in poverty are more than prepped and ready to accept a message from anyone preaching love and eternal happiness , even if it has to happen after they’re dead. Is it any wonder today why most missionaries go to the most desolate and unhappy places on earth to get their point across?

When “facts” about the life of Jesus are just presented as truth because “we were all brought up to understand it this way” I have a problem. Given that I’ve read and watched things that undermine Jesus ever living the life depicted in the bible, it then turns me off to hear “just like when Jesus came to Jerusalem and caused a ruckus….just like when Jesus’ birth had such and such, etc” because I know they are taken as matter-of-fact and not necessarily documented truth. With that in mind, how do you expect to convey this love and faith shtick if lies beyond this barrier of convoluted Jesus? Keep in mind it goes well beyond factual discrepancies about his character as well. I think it serves as an act of intellectual dishonesty to think Jesus is the only way, because it effectively denies the millions of atheists and agnostics(technically atheists anyway), who are fully aware of love, happiness, and perhaps faith without divine prompting. The thing I posted about the Christian sub-culture seemed to piss of a few of my Christian readers, but do you guys not see that anything put in the way of the basic human happiness principals, be it Jesus’ name or message or whatever, is damaging in itself? I want the Christian’s to just say “I’m going to love you” instead of saying “you’re my bother/sister in Christ from which follows I love you.” They’ve just managed to use him as an excuse, built a little Jesus wall between them and who they’re talking to, but still try to take on the connotative punch of the word love. Instead of “Christ taught” how about “I think” and you’ll know for sure whether you’re talking to someone about things that matter to you and them, and not persuading them to suck up and cave under any guilt they have regarding their ideas about God.

I don’t ask people why they are Christian or get into long and, trust me, quite frustrating discussions with people to hear the same spiel over and over again about Jesus or the bible; I try to learn about the person who has hopefully “chosen” to adopt their belief and why. I don’t want their catch phrases. If it turns out that its simply about them being happy, then who’s really right when describing that person? Me for saying that it seems rather simple to avoid family issues, not having a vast amount of knowledge about it, and feeling good around a group of singing or happy people would foster a belief in the “truth” of some religion. Am I wrong for thinking that an entire culture where kids are raised watching celebrities thank God, saying dinner and bedtime prayers, and hearing constant biblical references in our dialogue would jar them as well? Just maybe the idea of hell helped someone grow in their faith here or there. Or is it more likely that they are filled with a holy spirit, loved by Jesus, talked to in prayer, and therefore it lends credence to the truth behind what they “know” about Jesus and their religion? No one is denying the impact of religion or the messages conveyed, but to deny an understanding of desperate humanity, and ultimately an understanding of yourself, that would be the biggest “sin” of all.

So ultimately, Beckman attempts to blur the lines and undermine religious distinctions by showing how they can all mesh around the central figure of Jesus or events associated with his life. You don’t put out a fire with kerosene. While I’d love for those barriers to vanish, the cure for religious fundamentalists and divisive beliefs is not “religion light” or a Jesus patch. If I’m going to respect someone who takes up a cause prompted by their faith, but more importantly, if they hope to do or be anything that matters, they need to show me who they are and not what Christ tells them to be, and then work from there. Shake off the dogma and take up an identity. It’s the human message and human understanding that needs to be shared.

22 comments

Updated about 6 months ago

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 12:39pm on May 23rd, 2008 "I think it serves as an act of intellectual dishonesty to think Jesus is the only way, because it effectively denies the millions of atheists and agnostics(technically atheists anyway), who are fully aware of love, happiness, and perhaps faith without divine prompting." Of all the things in the bible i disagree with, this idea you bring up here is the one i struggle with the most. I don't know if I've told you before, but I'm christian..ish.. sorta. I disagree with the bible constantly, question my faith at every turn, and constantly try to figure out why the hell i'm religious when every fiber of my being screams at me about how illogical and irrational it is. That being said, the idea that just because you don't believe in a guy getting tortured to death and brought back to life, that you're a bad person and deserve to burn in hell and have eternal torment has pissed me off as far back as i can remember. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 12:56pm on May 23rd, 2008 If God is supposed to be so caring and compassionate and omnipotent as I'm supposed to believe, why the hell can't he judged people based on their character.. like i mentioned in one of your last rants, i really find that a person who is good just for the purpose of being good, and not because of a religious doctrine, is really.. good-er then damn near every christian i can think of. And considering that, if there is a God and a heave and a hell, why do the good-er deserve to burn in hell because they can't believe in magic??? Report - Delete

Cara Zimmerman (Chicago, IL) wroteat 7:51pm on May 23rd, 2008 in response to billy, EVERYONE deserves to burn in hell, no matter how good or bad they are. and it is only by God's mercy that we are saved. yeah it sounds crazy and very unfair, and i've struggled with the whole concept of God choosing who to save and who not to save, but ultimately we have to trust God and the fact that he knows what he's doing even if we don't understand it. that is what faith is. you have to get past yourself and your doubts about God and completely trust him with your life. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 8:18pm on May 23rd, 2008 I can see why not everyone would deserve eternal peace bliss etc, but to think that every single person deserves to burn in hell seems.. ridiculous to me. I know i'm suppose to trust in god etc. etc... but it's hard to do, considering i'm basing all of my trust on a book thats many thousands of years old, has been translated and transcribed so many time, no doubt influenced by other cultures, and by the mere fact it was written down by humans, HAS to be flawed in some way or another. It's impossible to trust in it completely, yet i'm supposed to. I don't know what to believe and what not too, and i have to tell you, god doesn't seem to be giving me any answers... Now, by the very nature of the bible being flawed in someway, i can't say for a FACT that god knows what he's doing, or if he's even doing anything. For all i know, satan himself has had a hand in writing pieces of the bible, and man has put it together unwittingly. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 8:21pm on May 23rd, 2008 Don't get me wrong, i'm not trying to bash your faith or say the bible is full of shit. I'm not saying that the bible was written by satan or isn't in fact the written word of god. What i'm saying, rather, is that i can't know for SURE what to believe and what not too, and these are some of the reasons and questions i have. I admit, i'm jealous of your faith because these thoughts consume a lot of my time and frustrate me constantly. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 8:24pm on May 23rd, 2008 Anyway, all that was a little off topic of the original note. Ii agree (if i fully understand what you wrote) that this guy trying to filter everything through jesus is kind of silly, and that people truly need to THINK for themselves. Report - Delete

Nick P. wroteat 3:23am on May 24th, 2008 I don't know why you would be jealous of her faith Mr. Bowman. I personally find it a lot more satisfying to think about these things, come to conclusions, those conclusions not including a god do not detract from my happiness in anyway and I don't feel like someone claiming faith has "1 upped" me or anything. It was rather uplifting to read and learn about the origins of the bible and why and how people can come to believe in such things. What I do know is that whole burn in hell or love me scenario, if true, send me to hell. I refuse to exhibit hypocritical love and trust. Delete

Nick P. wroteat 3:28am on May 24th, 2008 And what a terrible message to tell people. Hey, your depressed and need someone, well guess what, it doesn't end there you also need to burn forever because some bitch picked an apple. lol. It's rather ridiculous to just spell out in words, ehem the bible. Cara you just became a shining example of how the religious crap detracts from the simple ideas of love and compassion alone. You could be actually effective if you just scaled down the extra b/s christianity has weighted you with and said "whether you choose to abandon rational thought for faith or not, this is what I can do for you." Delete

Nick P. wroteat 3:29am on May 24th, 2008 One final note Mr. Bowman. There are several sites that have collaborated all those flaws and ridiculous passages online if you'd like to get a real scope of how much people ignore or don't know about when claiming the truth of it. Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 11:17am on May 24th, 2008 Perhaps jealously isn't the right way to express it... but to be that sure of where one stands.. instead of being in constant conflict and uncertainty... it doesn't matter as i never be able to abandon my rational thinking. I agree with you whole heartedly on the 'love me or burn in hell' bit.. it really seems to completely contradict most of the messages in the bible, and i'm quite sure hell is the only reason many christians believe what they do.. Send me those sites when you get a chance.. i'd love to read through and find out how much of what people claim as truth is as messed up as i speculate. Report - Delete

Cara Zimmerman (Chicago, IL) wroteat 5:47pm on May 24th, 2008 you can't just believe some websites though. you think i'm an idiot because i base my faith in God on a book, the Bible, but you base your lack of faith in God on some books/websites. love and compassion is not ALL what christianity is about. there's more to it than that. christianity has not weighed me down with bs. don't tell me what i should have said. i know there is lot of confusion in life, but you CAN know for sure what to believe in. and i'm glad you're taking the time to think about it and not believe mindlessly and blindly. pray that God will show himself to you. and search with all you are for the truth, the honest and complete truth. i'll be praying for you, both of you. Report - Delete

Billy Bowman (Bloomington, IN) wroteat 5:58pm on May 24th, 2008 I never said i'd believe what i read on those websites, as like you stated yourself, it could have the same flaws, but none the less i'd be interested in reading it. I've prayed he'd show me SOMETHING, anything, that would give me some sense of going one way or the other for many many years, but i've not seen anything, nor heard any response at all. But thank you, i suppose, and i will continue searching for the truth and perhaps one day i will find it... i'm not hopeful though, all things considered.. Report - Delete

Nick P. wroteat 6:00pm on May 24th, 2008 You can't base a "lack of faith." Why don't you believe in unicorns...the evidence is not forthcoming nor convincing. The fact that love and compassion is not ALL christianity is about is exactly its problem. You are so disrespectful to say "pray that god will show himself to you." Do you think I just don't get it? Is my knowledge and truth and reasoning so stupid that I need to appeal to something I don't believe in to cope? Do not pray for me, how are prayers supposed to influence free will anyway? Glad I'm taking the time like I have spent the last 3 years beating this subject into the ground. Everything you say could be said by someone of any faith yet simply because you say it know its a better argument or better intentioned? Delete

Nick P. wroteat 6:05pm on May 24th, 2008 As far as those sites are concerned, all they do is quote the bible. You don't have to go to a site to read the book yourself. Await the endless "keep it context!" charges like mere reading is beyond the capacity of the unbeliever as well. If praying God will show himself to you worked, he would've done it back when I tried it. Why do you deny that it has been done and tried before? Perhaps I'm so adamant because I felt absolutely NOTHING and had dreams and hopes all centered around a relationship with God and it all turned to shit the less I started doing and the more I started praying. Give me the credit of having bought into the crap long enough to have a reasoned and, excuse me, extremely well established position from which to live my life. Delete

Nick P. wroteat 6:11pm on May 24th, 2008 And when have I ever called you an idiot? Misinformed, ignorant of the facts, and unable to answer my endless accusations and arguments sure. You choose to take on the victim position. Don't put words in my mouth to try and distance yourself from the real conversation I'm trying to hold. My whole argument is what people should have said and I don't think I'm full of shit for believing in the simple facts of love and compassion alone. It's when I get barraged with all the bullshit from religious doctrine that makes me want to forgo giving a shit because how could anyone understand me when all they want to think about is how terrible and sinful they are? Delete

Cara Zimmerman (Chicago, IL) wroteat 11:29pm on May 24th, 2008 nick, i in no way intended to be disrespectful to you or anyone else. i'm sorry if you took it that way. i'm not trying to tell you what to do, and i know you never called me an idiot. but don't you think, if you seriously did prove christianity wrong, that you should tell everyone your argument and then we'd all realize that we're wrong? if you're so right, if you have all this proof against christianity, then why don't more people believe you and drop their religion? why can't you base a lack of faith? and yes, i will still pray for you, whether you want me to or not and regardless of if you think it ''works'' or not. i'm sorry, i didn't ever mean to disrespect you or insult you or argue with you or anything else. Report - Delete

Cara Zimmerman (Chicago, IL) wroteat 11:29pm on May 24th, 2008 and yes, the title probably is the only thing that would make someone read it. Report - Delete

Nick P. wroteat 3:43am on May 25th, 2008 It isn't about "proving Christianity wrong" so to speak, its more about making people realize there are better ways to think about life than behave or burn in hell. What the Christians don't realize is that the arguments of today started at the advent of the religion, and have yet to be answered. There are people with PHD's who fully understand the arguments and fully understand they can't answer, but still feel secure replying "it's about faith." There is also a difference between discussing historical facts or inferences from the bible and whether or not a god does in fact exist. There have been many people to drop their faith after reading The God Delusion alone and appear in Converts corner on his website. Delete

Nick P. wroteat 3:48am on May 25th, 2008 You can't base a lack of faith because it's trying to establish a position in a void. I can't start an argument "this is what I don't believe and I'm going to fight for it." Put yourself in my position having spent countless hours watching and listening to debates, watching lectures on evolution, watching documentaries and lectures on the bible, getting into months long conversations with people who've told me absolutely scary things that you can only say from a religious mindset, emailing priests/laymen to get the same tired responses, and most importantly reading every book I have listen on my profile which I frequently suggest and offer to people only to be confronted with laziness and pull cord catch phrases. Delete

Nick P. wroteat 4:03am on May 25th, 2008 I think its an absolute disgrace for people to ever feel like they have all the answers when I personally make the effort to understand why they are so wrong. When I present someone with a book long explanation for a handful of things they think they know what they're talking about, it'd maybe be nice for them to at least humor me and hit the library. If you think the book is bullshit or prone to bias, find me a review, or ten, and make a case for why you shouldn't have to waste your time. The whole point is to get out of this tepid "belief in questioning" mode, move towards actual answers, and when you don't know something, admit it. Delete

Cara Zimmerman (Chicago, IL) wroteat 5:34pm on May 25th, 2008 i never said i know everything, and i certainly don't. and yeah i guess you're right, about the stuff i don't know, ''it's about faith''. crazy or not, it IS about faith. ok i will seriously do this. tell me a book to read (a shorter one please) that the library has, and i will go get it and read it and tell you what i think. it's almost summer so i pretty much have nothing to do, so i'll have time. and here is a book i recommend to you, ''the case for christ'' by Lee strobel. i realize that right away it screams ''christian!!!'' but hear me out, it's a good one, and i'd like to hear your opinion about it. have you taken philosophy at college yet? i'm planning on taking it this fall, and maybe it will enlighten me. that is all, have a good day. Report - Delete

Nick P. wroteat 9:55pm on May 25th, 2008 You should watch this video and read these articles before you suggest that book.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6937267722492958878 http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/strobel.html http://lastdebate.blogspot.com/2007/07/book-review-case-for-christ.html http://www.caseagainstfaith.com/ I've taken two philosphy classes centered around Kierkegaard and Sartre, and one with a bunch philosophers starting at Aristotle. They won't help you fight for faith though lol and will show you just how far back these discussions go. I'll try to go through my books to find a "short" one that summarizes and dispells the quite common tactics that appear in places other than strobel.