This was a fight between (no longer) friends. Petty and annoying at the time. I find it hilarious today.
Monday,
February 22, 2010 at 6:30am
We
will never form the kind of productive and thoughtful society that I
fantasize about because of our feelings. More specifically, your
feelings. Men and women are fickle. In my experience, my “friends,”
you all, generally tend to see a different reality between us than I
do. My life doesn’t depend on you. We either provide each other
with some utility, have a history together, or kind of think the same
in enough situations. I like this, I appreciate this, and I will keep
it going as long as you want. The second my friendship to you is
dependent on your feelings, we’re not going to work. I can’t hate
the people you hate, merely because you hate them. I won’t damage
my happiness or relationship with someone because you hold a grudge.
That isn’t something a “true friend” who “respects” you
would ask of you let alone expect without reason. Let’s highlight a
scenario I feel relevant to the topic at hand.
Chris choked out Jvo. That one girl you let break your heart. One scenario, an act of physical violence was perpetrated against a girl, who’s my friend, for a slew of horrible reasons and childish bullshit. It’s reasonable for me to expect friends of mine to assess that kind of behavior as inappropriate and a reason to not want to associate with that person. I don’t hang with people who attack women, if you do, explain to me why and how the relationship is justified. I don’t endorse that behavior, I don’t respect that behavior. The latter scenario involves a boy and girl, some bad actions, but at the end of the day, you are responsible for your feelings about it. She didn’t stab you, you let her in. She didn’t make it her goal to hurt you by getting into a relationship, nor does she care to continue talking about it until you start drama by random insulting and bullshit texts.
Jvo, if and when you read this, you would be justified in giving me shit, not being my friend, and whatever else that distanced you and me if I was still cool with Chris, brought him around, and was trying to rub it in your face. Let’s remember, he choked you out. Correct me if I’m wrong Jvo, but you still talk to most if not all of your exes, except the one who’s tried to maintain his “best friend” status with Chris. I’m sure some bad shit had to go down for you to break up with them, but I know you see little utility in crying about it and trying to make you or your other friends hate them because you do.
Now you might be saying to yourself, “Nick, you dated Steev, are you still talking to her? You guys the best of friends?” And I would say, all too predictable, yet understandable. What you may not know is that I’ve told Steev that I had this crazy idea one day in the bathroom of Casa Brava that me and her could one day be cool again once I got over the fact that I did the same thing as the boy above, I let her in and tried to trust. I don’t blame Steev for that, I blame her for lying to me and being a generally fake as shit person, but I separate her being responsible about that fucked up-ness about herself, and my fucked up-ness about myself. This is why I have no respect for the games people try to play with me. I’ve been there, I get where you’re coming from, but it’s easy for you to simply state that I don’t care and am not a real enough friend for you. Okay, fuck off and die, I wash my hands of you.
Conversely, if you’re not retarded, give me the credit I deserve, and accept good reasoning, we’re usually happy together. As they say somewhere in the interwebs, zomg! What a concept. It’s crazy too, that I’ve gotten into it pretty heavily with other generally reasonable people, and even still manage to reach a middle ground even if it takes longer than I’d like. So, yes, I know how and why I’m conducting myself and where I’m at with my friends. No, I will not help you project your feelings and insecurities onto those relationships. Yes, I have at least one standing example of how you should conduct yourself and your life. No, I don’t necessarily respect or accept why you would “choose” to behave otherwise. This is why I’m a real person, and you are not. It’s not my fault
Also, I really hope this is one of those blogs that everyone manages to read, because I want to stress this point any time I’m talking at you. And yes, for whatever reason it is at you when you conduct yourself unreasonably. When I go out of my way to explain something to you, that is me being friendly. For someone who doesn’t give a fuck, it’s hard to really explain how annoying it is to watch myself type words you know you understand and are going to deny and argue back anyway. It’s viewed as pointless to me to try and sum up in a blog or two, or a few texts, the entirety of why you’re wrong or why I do in fact get where you’re coming from, but don’t agree. Why? This is part of my friendship towards you. When I take the time to denigrate my time for the sake of your understanding, you should learn to appreciate it. You don’t have to and that’s okay; I get on much quicker without treating you as a speed bump, but if you want to take it for granted, I’ll correct the discrepancy.
I want to make sure that I preface this next part with a disclaimer. If there are any questions, you really need to ask, because I’m almost certain it’s going to get at least marginally confused or come out not perfect and result in some negative feelings. The topic is need verses want. The statement is, I don’t need you. I don’t like it when people need me. I prefer to exist in a world of wants. I want there to be a rational actor behind the desire, a good reason behind the feeling, before it’s validated. If you are my friend it’s because I want to be friends, not because we are desperately attached to each other for leeching and feeling coddling. If I’m your friend who has any control over your feelings, you need to distance yourself from me. I’m good for what I’m good for, you’re good for what you’re good for, when we both recognize that, we get along fine. If I give you a ride, pay for a movie, let you eat my food, or let you take any of my time or resources for any reason whatsoever, that’s my utility towards you. That’s what I have to offer. That’s the only reason I matter. Any feelings you have about me or towards me, are yours to work out and/or discuss with me. It isn’t my goal to outright fuck with or hurt those feelings, but I will, and you will blame me.
I would think it stands to reason that if we are both providing each other with something, the feelings would tip in favor of positive and we never have to delve into the deep dark world of doubt and painful thoughts. ::shudders:: Not everyone agrees with this though. They want to pretend I care about their feelings in the same way they do. I don’t because I can’t do anything to change them. I can’t tell you how compelling they are for you, but I can say I’ve had compelling feelings. I won’t tell you I respect them for who they make you hate and what they help you enjoy, I’ll tell you I understand where you’re coming from, and have made a different choice. Your feelings matter to you. You deal with them. I’ll talk to you sure, I’ll try to help as long as you care to be friends, but you won’t drag me down with them. It works the other way too, no matter how happy you are, if I just got back from getting gang raped, I’m probably not going to enjoy your mood. But I still understand happiness and know I can get back there.
This is the kind of friend I am. This is not the kind of friend everyone is, or that most people are even capable of, at least in their own minds. Obviously, if you’ve managed to refrain from deleting me, the things I say must tend to make sense, or at least give you fuel to argue somewhere beyond my ears all the reasons I’m wrong. I don’t surround myself with people who always have to agree with me, they just have to be reasonable when they don’t.
”But Nick, your ‘reasoning’ always seems settle on something that leaves me feeling angry or you feeling self-righteous….”
Chris choked out Jvo. That one girl you let break your heart. One scenario, an act of physical violence was perpetrated against a girl, who’s my friend, for a slew of horrible reasons and childish bullshit. It’s reasonable for me to expect friends of mine to assess that kind of behavior as inappropriate and a reason to not want to associate with that person. I don’t hang with people who attack women, if you do, explain to me why and how the relationship is justified. I don’t endorse that behavior, I don’t respect that behavior. The latter scenario involves a boy and girl, some bad actions, but at the end of the day, you are responsible for your feelings about it. She didn’t stab you, you let her in. She didn’t make it her goal to hurt you by getting into a relationship, nor does she care to continue talking about it until you start drama by random insulting and bullshit texts.
Jvo, if and when you read this, you would be justified in giving me shit, not being my friend, and whatever else that distanced you and me if I was still cool with Chris, brought him around, and was trying to rub it in your face. Let’s remember, he choked you out. Correct me if I’m wrong Jvo, but you still talk to most if not all of your exes, except the one who’s tried to maintain his “best friend” status with Chris. I’m sure some bad shit had to go down for you to break up with them, but I know you see little utility in crying about it and trying to make you or your other friends hate them because you do.
Now you might be saying to yourself, “Nick, you dated Steev, are you still talking to her? You guys the best of friends?” And I would say, all too predictable, yet understandable. What you may not know is that I’ve told Steev that I had this crazy idea one day in the bathroom of Casa Brava that me and her could one day be cool again once I got over the fact that I did the same thing as the boy above, I let her in and tried to trust. I don’t blame Steev for that, I blame her for lying to me and being a generally fake as shit person, but I separate her being responsible about that fucked up-ness about herself, and my fucked up-ness about myself. This is why I have no respect for the games people try to play with me. I’ve been there, I get where you’re coming from, but it’s easy for you to simply state that I don’t care and am not a real enough friend for you. Okay, fuck off and die, I wash my hands of you.
Conversely, if you’re not retarded, give me the credit I deserve, and accept good reasoning, we’re usually happy together. As they say somewhere in the interwebs, zomg! What a concept. It’s crazy too, that I’ve gotten into it pretty heavily with other generally reasonable people, and even still manage to reach a middle ground even if it takes longer than I’d like. So, yes, I know how and why I’m conducting myself and where I’m at with my friends. No, I will not help you project your feelings and insecurities onto those relationships. Yes, I have at least one standing example of how you should conduct yourself and your life. No, I don’t necessarily respect or accept why you would “choose” to behave otherwise. This is why I’m a real person, and you are not. It’s not my fault
Also, I really hope this is one of those blogs that everyone manages to read, because I want to stress this point any time I’m talking at you. And yes, for whatever reason it is at you when you conduct yourself unreasonably. When I go out of my way to explain something to you, that is me being friendly. For someone who doesn’t give a fuck, it’s hard to really explain how annoying it is to watch myself type words you know you understand and are going to deny and argue back anyway. It’s viewed as pointless to me to try and sum up in a blog or two, or a few texts, the entirety of why you’re wrong or why I do in fact get where you’re coming from, but don’t agree. Why? This is part of my friendship towards you. When I take the time to denigrate my time for the sake of your understanding, you should learn to appreciate it. You don’t have to and that’s okay; I get on much quicker without treating you as a speed bump, but if you want to take it for granted, I’ll correct the discrepancy.
I want to make sure that I preface this next part with a disclaimer. If there are any questions, you really need to ask, because I’m almost certain it’s going to get at least marginally confused or come out not perfect and result in some negative feelings. The topic is need verses want. The statement is, I don’t need you. I don’t like it when people need me. I prefer to exist in a world of wants. I want there to be a rational actor behind the desire, a good reason behind the feeling, before it’s validated. If you are my friend it’s because I want to be friends, not because we are desperately attached to each other for leeching and feeling coddling. If I’m your friend who has any control over your feelings, you need to distance yourself from me. I’m good for what I’m good for, you’re good for what you’re good for, when we both recognize that, we get along fine. If I give you a ride, pay for a movie, let you eat my food, or let you take any of my time or resources for any reason whatsoever, that’s my utility towards you. That’s what I have to offer. That’s the only reason I matter. Any feelings you have about me or towards me, are yours to work out and/or discuss with me. It isn’t my goal to outright fuck with or hurt those feelings, but I will, and you will blame me.
I would think it stands to reason that if we are both providing each other with something, the feelings would tip in favor of positive and we never have to delve into the deep dark world of doubt and painful thoughts. ::shudders:: Not everyone agrees with this though. They want to pretend I care about their feelings in the same way they do. I don’t because I can’t do anything to change them. I can’t tell you how compelling they are for you, but I can say I’ve had compelling feelings. I won’t tell you I respect them for who they make you hate and what they help you enjoy, I’ll tell you I understand where you’re coming from, and have made a different choice. Your feelings matter to you. You deal with them. I’ll talk to you sure, I’ll try to help as long as you care to be friends, but you won’t drag me down with them. It works the other way too, no matter how happy you are, if I just got back from getting gang raped, I’m probably not going to enjoy your mood. But I still understand happiness and know I can get back there.
This is the kind of friend I am. This is not the kind of friend everyone is, or that most people are even capable of, at least in their own minds. Obviously, if you’ve managed to refrain from deleting me, the things I say must tend to make sense, or at least give you fuel to argue somewhere beyond my ears all the reasons I’m wrong. I don’t surround myself with people who always have to agree with me, they just have to be reasonable when they don’t.
”But Nick, your ‘reasoning’ always seems settle on something that leaves me feeling angry or you feeling self-righteous….”
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Written
about a week ago · Comment · LikeUnlike
when
will you stop hiding behind the illusion that you are "real?"
February
22 at 11:13am ·
you
say that when people don't agree with you they have to be
reasonable... people make irrational decisions everyday but it isn't
necessarily wrong. people make these decisions based on deeper
feelings... feelings that you only get to by taking the risk of
getting hurt... sure you can have the feeling of friendship and sorts
with little risk but ... See Morewhen you dive into deeper feelings
such as love there is a high risk of hurt, anger, hate, a many
negative feelings... but yet people still choose to go that
direction. although it may seem "unreasonable" people still
do it... meaning there has to be some possible outcome, no matter how
small it is, that ends well... it seems as though you close yourself
off from these deeper feelings because there is that high risk of
negative side effects.
i wont speak for jvo but the reason she most likely still talks to her exes is because on some level there was a deeper bond and although it has come to an end there will always be traces of that bond in her everyday life... weather she likes it or not, or anyone for that matter, when you have a deeper relationship it effects everyday of the rest of your life... it changes you as a person. this is not necessarily a bad thing its just an "effect" but by staying in contact with these people it helps to come to terms with the events that have transpired... when 'deeper feelings' are involved and a break up occurs it hurts... but by staying in contact those feelings are more likely to get better and you are able to find out why it happened and most of all you are able to focus on the things that were good.
you may not agree with this but its how i feel... it may be irrational to attempt to have a deeper more intimate relationship but i believe that it is worth it... it is worth it to risk being hurt and becoming angry to possibly and maybe have a relationship on the next level.
i wont speak for jvo but the reason she most likely still talks to her exes is because on some level there was a deeper bond and although it has come to an end there will always be traces of that bond in her everyday life... weather she likes it or not, or anyone for that matter, when you have a deeper relationship it effects everyday of the rest of your life... it changes you as a person. this is not necessarily a bad thing its just an "effect" but by staying in contact with these people it helps to come to terms with the events that have transpired... when 'deeper feelings' are involved and a break up occurs it hurts... but by staying in contact those feelings are more likely to get better and you are able to find out why it happened and most of all you are able to focus on the things that were good.
you may not agree with this but its how i feel... it may be irrational to attempt to have a deeper more intimate relationship but i believe that it is worth it... it is worth it to risk being hurt and becoming angry to possibly and maybe have a relationship on the next level.
February
22 at 11:48am ·
Mr.
Peterson, you attempt to make the argument that irrational decision
aren't always the wrong choice. My one argument which has no rebut is
that in being irrational, you are automatically in the wrong hence it
being irrational. Rational is the only right choice and path, but
rationality is not to be confused with morality which is in a totally
separate realm.
February
22 at 12:41pm ·
John,
when you will grow up and understand enough to take it for granted?
February
22 at 12:44pm ·
Luke,
I would have to say that I don't think deeper feelings are necessarily irrationality, if anything a hyper rationality concerning a world you create for yourself. I don't think it is unreasonable to want or feel like you're in "love", but if the feelings get blamed, when feelings have to be manifested and dwelled upon through thought, that's when it becomes unreasonable.
I can understand why you think I close myself off. I would have to say that this isn't exactly the case, but I take much care and guard against letting my feelings go awry. More importantly, I try not to let them help me persuade myself to make bad decisions. Every person I meet and try be friends with is a risk. Some throw tantrums and are eager to piss away that friendship, some calmly and logically explain to me what they think or how we may differ and why. You really have no idea what that means to me, thank you.
Your thoughts on Jvo's reasons are part of the reason I used her as an example. I agree.
But ya, ultimately I don't think it's irrational to want a "deeper," whatever that means to the individual, relationship.
I would have to say that I don't think deeper feelings are necessarily irrationality, if anything a hyper rationality concerning a world you create for yourself. I don't think it is unreasonable to want or feel like you're in "love", but if the feelings get blamed, when feelings have to be manifested and dwelled upon through thought, that's when it becomes unreasonable.
I can understand why you think I close myself off. I would have to say that this isn't exactly the case, but I take much care and guard against letting my feelings go awry. More importantly, I try not to let them help me persuade myself to make bad decisions. Every person I meet and try be friends with is a risk. Some throw tantrums and are eager to piss away that friendship, some calmly and logically explain to me what they think or how we may differ and why. You really have no idea what that means to me, thank you.
Your thoughts on Jvo's reasons are part of the reason I used her as an example. I agree.
But ya, ultimately I don't think it's irrational to want a "deeper," whatever that means to the individual, relationship.
February
22 at 12:57pm ·
well
nick, i agree that there is some risk in creating a friendship... my
point is that the more feelings that are put into a relationship, the
higher the risk of hurt.
also, i'm not saying that you close yourself of, just that you are very careful about feelings you show... more so than others... not that that is a bad thing, some people show more emotion and some people are more resistant
byron,
i'm only saying that from an outside perspective many decisions that are based on feelings such as love or hate seem irrational but to the person making the decision may seem totally rational... its completely based on perspective.
also, i'm not saying that you close yourself of, just that you are very careful about feelings you show... more so than others... not that that is a bad thing, some people show more emotion and some people are more resistant
byron,
i'm only saying that from an outside perspective many decisions that are based on feelings such as love or hate seem irrational but to the person making the decision may seem totally rational... its completely based on perspective.
February
22 at 1:04pm ·
Things
you don't do when you're being reasonable:
1. Text "bitch" to your ex when you take the fact that she came to a party with her boyfriend as a threat.
2. Get pissed at one person, me of all fucks, for their interaction with your ex when you've known how I've felt about the situation every time the topic has come up. (Disavowing our friendship when you first heard me say I'm still going to be her friend would have kept you consistent and reliable.) Not to mention, another real mother fucker like Luke, who invited her to his party will probably never hear a word out of you.
3. Refrain from actually answering direct and useful questions like "tell me why I should hate the people you hate" with abstract and indirect bullshit like "real friends" would "respect" me more than that.
I'm real because no matter your petty feelings, I'm still going to call you a whiny little girl when you act like a fucking whiny little girl. Pouting, needing "warnings," random unprovoked texts, flyers in the the dorm halls, etc. You don't become a topic of interest or care until you put your bullshit out there for people to get pissed at it. This is what's happening. This is the reality. If you have something more clear, or more helpful to add, you know how and what you have to say, but you're hung up on some bullshit insecurities and immaturity. I don't play these games. I won't give you any room. That's the best I can do as a real friend.
1. Text "bitch" to your ex when you take the fact that she came to a party with her boyfriend as a threat.
2. Get pissed at one person, me of all fucks, for their interaction with your ex when you've known how I've felt about the situation every time the topic has come up. (Disavowing our friendship when you first heard me say I'm still going to be her friend would have kept you consistent and reliable.) Not to mention, another real mother fucker like Luke, who invited her to his party will probably never hear a word out of you.
3. Refrain from actually answering direct and useful questions like "tell me why I should hate the people you hate" with abstract and indirect bullshit like "real friends" would "respect" me more than that.
I'm real because no matter your petty feelings, I'm still going to call you a whiny little girl when you act like a fucking whiny little girl. Pouting, needing "warnings," random unprovoked texts, flyers in the the dorm halls, etc. You don't become a topic of interest or care until you put your bullshit out there for people to get pissed at it. This is what's happening. This is the reality. If you have something more clear, or more helpful to add, you know how and what you have to say, but you're hung up on some bullshit insecurities and immaturity. I don't play these games. I won't give you any room. That's the best I can do as a real friend.
February
22 at 1:07pm ·
and
that would be the difference between how john and jvo handle the
presence of an ex boyfriend/girlfriend
jvo handles it and comes to terms with it weather she likes it or not rather than since you dont like the situation you just get mad every time she appears... deal with it, move on, get over it, just do whatever it is you need to do to to come to terms and stop getting shitty when no one else hates her like you do
jvo handles it and comes to terms with it weather she likes it or not rather than since you dont like the situation you just get mad every time she appears... deal with it, move on, get over it, just do whatever it is you need to do to to come to terms and stop getting shitty when no one else hates her like you do
February
22 at 1:14pm ·
Luke,
Aha, see this is an interesting point where we may differ. I don't think there are "amounts," if you will of feelings in general that get put into things. I am the deepest of friends with people who were well established individuals and thinkers well before I knew them. The more they realize, are open towards, independently come to and discuss with me, the closer I am with them. The more "risks" I'll take in telling them things and being honest with them.
I think what most people describe as compelling love for example, is a perpetual thought pattern. I love this person, they are so beautiful, I feel not alone, they are so funny, that reminds me of them, that smells like them, I'm afraid or angry at the idea of not being with them...so no so forth. Each thing an independent enough thought enough for an opportunity to break the cycle. You may not be able to erase the physical things that engaged when a memory or thought about that person comes up, but how you think about those feelings and what's happening to you can garner better decisions.
Aha, see this is an interesting point where we may differ. I don't think there are "amounts," if you will of feelings in general that get put into things. I am the deepest of friends with people who were well established individuals and thinkers well before I knew them. The more they realize, are open towards, independently come to and discuss with me, the closer I am with them. The more "risks" I'll take in telling them things and being honest with them.
I think what most people describe as compelling love for example, is a perpetual thought pattern. I love this person, they are so beautiful, I feel not alone, they are so funny, that reminds me of them, that smells like them, I'm afraid or angry at the idea of not being with them...so no so forth. Each thing an independent enough thought enough for an opportunity to break the cycle. You may not be able to erase the physical things that engaged when a memory or thought about that person comes up, but how you think about those feelings and what's happening to you can garner better decisions.
February
22 at 1:18pm ·
well
i agree with the last part "you think about those feelings and
what's happening to you can garner better decisions" part of
life is using the things that dont go the way you would have liked to
help make sure that doesnt happen again.
i'm not saying that there are "amounts" of feeling but there is an amount of effort that you purse each feeling with and sometimes to make a feeling or relationship to become stronger, considerable effort is needed and sometimes it may be worth it other times it may not
i'm not saying that there are "amounts" of feeling but there is an amount of effort that you purse each feeling with and sometimes to make a feeling or relationship to become stronger, considerable effort is needed and sometimes it may be worth it other times it may not
February
22 at 1:22pm ·
I
can agree with that basically. I would just be a little confused on
the metric used to gauge and talk about the strength of that feeling.
February
22 at 1:25pm ·
Mr.
Peterson, I glad we can both agree that the rational choice can seem
irrational and it is based perspective or moral philosophy. You
however itiallily made the case for irrationality being the right in
some cases, you simply changed you position in your clarification,
however I like you new position and am glad you came to that
conclusion. Kudos to you!, not many people would even make the
attempt to change a bad position.
February
22 at 1:59pm ·
that
is an excellent question nick... maybe voltage created in the brain
from thinking times 1/3 of the calories burned during effort divided
by the amount of resources used (ie money/goods) so it would be some
number with the unit caloric watts per dollar... :-P
February
22 at 2:34pm ·
Unprovoked?
Nick, you instigate way more than people care to argue. i shouldn't;
but i still have a problem with julie, and you know this. A "real"
mother fucker wouldn't be a dick about it. And after everything i've
done for u the least you could do for me is warn me. I don't mind
that she was there, i mind that you brought her and that the first
thing you said to me was "get over it". Obviously you don't
give a fuck about me. I don't talk shit about you, yet you have so
much time to insult me to my ex and my friends. Fuck You.
February
22 at 5:31pm ·
I've
been telling you to get over it, and I'm still correct for doing so.
You started being a dick, your refusal to stop behaving immaturely is
what asked me to be a dick. How petty a thing to be someone's ride to
a party. I'm done explaining shit to you.
February
22 at 7:46pm ·
Let's
take a vote: anyone who thinks John should get over it...and less I
point out this line. "i shouldn't; but i still have a problem
with julie, and you know this." An admittance that he is wrong
and still manages to think "get over it" is the worst thing
you can say towards someone in that situation.
Or, should he hold his grudge and continue to give me shit because I have a relative tough love and little care to be bogged down by the past attitude.
1. Get over it
2. Keep bitching
Yes, this is interactive, it'd be great if you all responded.
Or, should he hold his grudge and continue to give me shit because I have a relative tough love and little care to be bogged down by the past attitude.
1. Get over it
2. Keep bitching
Yes, this is interactive, it'd be great if you all responded.
February
22 at 8:04pm ·
To
be quite honest i am fond of option #2...
But nick, this isn't about Julie. She may have been the start of this argument, but it's about you... All this fighting is because of how much of an ass you are and how little respect you show your friends. I'm not moving into the house because you have proven to me that your personal motives drive you. I've gone out of my way this entire year to help you with all your ideas and all your projects, with only the hope to benefit our friends. You on the other hand judge your friends based upon their (quoting you) "utility." Now that i have seen the true extent of this belief, i feel it best to stop pretending you are who you say you are... (real).
"Real" is just an adjective you have associated with yourself to give you a false sense of power. Your reality is not the only one, and it is not the best one. It may have its upsides, but it lacks the true values and faith friendships actually entail. Luke was right when implying that there can be deeper connections between friends, that you personally can not break down and completely understand. Your emotional withdrawal from those close to you only shows that ultimately you can considering them all expendable. ... See More
Treat everyone how you may, but your influence over our friends is slipping as we are all beginning to go our own way. Reaching out to Julie and new people can only do so much until they too realize how little you actually care about them as individuals (rather than pawns in your chess game). Over all I feel bad for you, I mean I may be emotional and insecure at times, but at least I know I have people like Michele, Laura, and KT that will always care. The day your thoughts get the best of you; who will actually care?
But nick, this isn't about Julie. She may have been the start of this argument, but it's about you... All this fighting is because of how much of an ass you are and how little respect you show your friends. I'm not moving into the house because you have proven to me that your personal motives drive you. I've gone out of my way this entire year to help you with all your ideas and all your projects, with only the hope to benefit our friends. You on the other hand judge your friends based upon their (quoting you) "utility." Now that i have seen the true extent of this belief, i feel it best to stop pretending you are who you say you are... (real).
"Real" is just an adjective you have associated with yourself to give you a false sense of power. Your reality is not the only one, and it is not the best one. It may have its upsides, but it lacks the true values and faith friendships actually entail. Luke was right when implying that there can be deeper connections between friends, that you personally can not break down and completely understand. Your emotional withdrawal from those close to you only shows that ultimately you can considering them all expendable. ... See More
Treat everyone how you may, but your influence over our friends is slipping as we are all beginning to go our own way. Reaching out to Julie and new people can only do so much until they too realize how little you actually care about them as individuals (rather than pawns in your chess game). Over all I feel bad for you, I mean I may be emotional and insecure at times, but at least I know I have people like Michele, Laura, and KT that will always care. The day your thoughts get the best of you; who will actually care?
February
22 at 9:40pm ·
I
do believe that despite what one's own personal definition of 'real'
may be, real is essentially a term that can be coined in favor of
being true to ones own self. We are all, in said reality, real and I
don't believe that that is even an arguing point. As long as you can
be honest with yourself and where your morals/priorities lie, there
is no sense in trying to prove yourself otherwise. Nick is very real.
He understands (while not everyone may agree with the views,
connections and relationships that he forms and thoroughly supports)
where he stands amongst those he associates with and how he views the
world. I am very real. I as well know who I can consider my friends,
acquaintances, and otherwise, and on what level I can connect or
choose to connect with them. Likewise, John is real. Damnit, trying
to disprove someone's own reality is like having the nonsensical
arguement that 'this spoon does not really exist.'
Naturally, ones own reality and sense of realness is going to regulate how we associate with one another. On a personal level, I have no problem with the theory of forgive and forget because I tend to see the goodness in most people that makes me want to continue associating with them.
The prospect of making meeting new people, new ideas, new faces simply astounds me. Submerging myself in others ideas of the world and of friendships and relationships.
It is unfortunate that someone could expect something of another in return for simple favors, however. Given the circumstances, I am never ceased to be amazed that a 'true' friend could ask another friend to disown their friend and think it a plausable idea simply because he believes he is of more worth value than the other. The reason we form friendships is because each person means something to us. We maintain these friendships because each new person contributes something to our lives that wasn't there before. It is only when this contribution becomes a nusense and in-fact causes us or conversely, causes the other person, hardship rather than pleasure that we choose to break these bonds.
Alas, it becomes difficult to find the line between friendship and possession when one tries to put a price on their acquaintances.
Naturally, ones own reality and sense of realness is going to regulate how we associate with one another. On a personal level, I have no problem with the theory of forgive and forget because I tend to see the goodness in most people that makes me want to continue associating with them.
The prospect of making meeting new people, new ideas, new faces simply astounds me. Submerging myself in others ideas of the world and of friendships and relationships.
It is unfortunate that someone could expect something of another in return for simple favors, however. Given the circumstances, I am never ceased to be amazed that a 'true' friend could ask another friend to disown their friend and think it a plausable idea simply because he believes he is of more worth value than the other. The reason we form friendships is because each person means something to us. We maintain these friendships because each new person contributes something to our lives that wasn't there before. It is only when this contribution becomes a nusense and in-fact causes us or conversely, causes the other person, hardship rather than pleasure that we choose to break these bonds.
Alas, it becomes difficult to find the line between friendship and possession when one tries to put a price on their acquaintances.
February
22 at 10:01pm ·
p.s.
not to make light of a 'serious' situation or anything but I almost
broke out into song...why can't weeeeeeeee be friiieeends, why can't
weeeeeeeee be friends, why can't we be friiieieieieiends. XD
February
22 at 10:10pm ·
"I'm
not moving into the house because you have proven to me that your
personal motives drive you."
I'm pretty sure I talk about my selfishness damn near every day. I don't want you to move into the house; I'm not a babysitter.
"You on the other hand judge your friends based upon their (quoting you) "utility."
Yes, and I base my views on myself as having a utility to them as well. You read that whole paragraph right? I fail to see how this negative.
"It may have its upsides, but it lacks the true values and faith friendships actually entail."
Hating Julie for you is not the kind of faith I want. Not that I want faith.
"Your emotional withdrawal from those close to you only shows that ultimately you can considering them all expendable"
Only as expendable as they view me.
"Treat everyone how you may, but your influence over our friends is slipping as we are all beginning to go our own way."
Did I not just have a conversation with you about getting away from people and starting a new thing? Again, what else can you pull from your ass to haphazardly frame as an attack? And say they are going their own way. Good! I don't want fucking zombie friends.
"....they too realize how little you actually care about them as individuals."
I only care about individuals. There are so few and frequently so depressingly flawed, but at least they're individuals. You can keep as many insecure, scared, and hypocritical friends as you want to make you feel comfortable.
"The day your thoughts get the best of you; who will actually care? "
If my thoughts ever get to me as badly as you've shown your feelings get to you I only hope one of them has the balls to recite the mantra "whiny little bitch."
I'm pretty sure I talk about my selfishness damn near every day. I don't want you to move into the house; I'm not a babysitter.
"You on the other hand judge your friends based upon their (quoting you) "utility."
Yes, and I base my views on myself as having a utility to them as well. You read that whole paragraph right? I fail to see how this negative.
"It may have its upsides, but it lacks the true values and faith friendships actually entail."
Hating Julie for you is not the kind of faith I want. Not that I want faith.
"Your emotional withdrawal from those close to you only shows that ultimately you can considering them all expendable"
Only as expendable as they view me.
"Treat everyone how you may, but your influence over our friends is slipping as we are all beginning to go our own way."
Did I not just have a conversation with you about getting away from people and starting a new thing? Again, what else can you pull from your ass to haphazardly frame as an attack? And say they are going their own way. Good! I don't want fucking zombie friends.
"....they too realize how little you actually care about them as individuals."
I only care about individuals. There are so few and frequently so depressingly flawed, but at least they're individuals. You can keep as many insecure, scared, and hypocritical friends as you want to make you feel comfortable.
"The day your thoughts get the best of you; who will actually care? "
If my thoughts ever get to me as badly as you've shown your feelings get to you I only hope one of them has the balls to recite the mantra "whiny little bitch."
February
22 at 10:28pm ·
Julie,
When I talk about real I mean honesty and personal responsibility.
So, when I say something like "John, I'm going to be friends with Julie" I take responsibility for my friendship with you and being honest with him. Contrast that with him admitting he shouldn't have a problem with you, but will maintain one anyway for attention and drama, and there seems to be an obvious disconnect. Yes, this is how a real child acts. Yes, this is "real" drama for people with no spine and common sense about how to take care of themselves. But it's not a real individual I can respect. I am not trying to disprove his reality, I'm calling his actions within it ridiculous and pointless, as evidenced by his own statements.
"On a personal level, I have no problem with the theory of forgive and forget because I tend to see the goodness in most people that makes me want to continue associating with them."
And you'd think someone who has such a "huge deal" with you would take advantage of such a philosophy, work it out, and learn to shut the fuck up.
"...when one tries to put a price on their acquaintances."
Apparently John only thinks he's worth some building experience, homemade wine, lights, and a bar. And you know what, he's doing a hell of a job showing it.
When I talk about real I mean honesty and personal responsibility.
So, when I say something like "John, I'm going to be friends with Julie" I take responsibility for my friendship with you and being honest with him. Contrast that with him admitting he shouldn't have a problem with you, but will maintain one anyway for attention and drama, and there seems to be an obvious disconnect. Yes, this is how a real child acts. Yes, this is "real" drama for people with no spine and common sense about how to take care of themselves. But it's not a real individual I can respect. I am not trying to disprove his reality, I'm calling his actions within it ridiculous and pointless, as evidenced by his own statements.
"On a personal level, I have no problem with the theory of forgive and forget because I tend to see the goodness in most people that makes me want to continue associating with them."
And you'd think someone who has such a "huge deal" with you would take advantage of such a philosophy, work it out, and learn to shut the fuck up.
"...when one tries to put a price on their acquaintances."
Apparently John only thinks he's worth some building experience, homemade wine, lights, and a bar. And you know what, he's doing a hell of a job showing it.
February
22 at 10:37pm ·
I
must say (1.) and I agree wholeheartedly with Julie. Whats is real?
But being true to yourself, your (gasp) feelings, and your thoughts.
And actually listening to your thoughts and feelings instead of being
a mindless zombie who swings with whatever the crowd swings with.
(Baa! BAA!) I think Nick is very "real", and can brag about
that as much as he damn well pleases. I think that Nick probably
listens to his feelings harder or better than most people do, and
this is why he may seem so disconnected from them.
Let me try to put out an example to make this more clear; girl of random name (anna) meets boy of random name (jack). Anna is absaloutly infatuated (feeling) with Jack, she thinks the sun shines out of his ass, she is extremely excited when he even looks her way, and she claims she is "in love" with Jack. Rather than examining her feelings, thinking them through, figuring out who Jack actually is, etc... She throws herself at him blindly. Jack quickly spews out a few easy lies about loving her back, has sex with her and never talks to her again. Easy come, easy go.
How "real" is Anna? Is throwing yourself blindly to the curb at every new and exciting "feeling" all that admirable? Sounds like innocence and if repeated, stupidity to me. It doesn't take more than a day in middle school to know that infatuation is NOT love, and to see that the extreme adrenaline rush that comes with does not garuntee you everlasting happiness if you don't freaking find out who you are "in love" with first.
Now lets look at not-so-random-name (Nick). Lets pretend Nick is falling in love ((teehee)), how do you think it will happen? Will his heart flip-flutter at the sight of some new girl until he has to ask her out, and then, LO AND BEHOLD! He turns into a blushing emotional rollercoaster, just panting at her heels? ORRRR.....Do you think he might decide to himself one day that he really would like to have one person to spend his life with...and then some day (much later) he would find a woman who was intelligent, "real", and fit into his lifestlye....and then he would follow through?
'
(Idk Nick, you tell me!)
However, I'm guessing (just guessing) that Nick probably isn't all that keen on having one woman to deal with 24/7. So he probably is not exactly "looking", so, were a girl to come along who he was infatuated with, he (just guessing) would probably try to figure out why she made him feel that way, maybe get to know her and find out if she was actually all that great....figure out she is human, and than see that this is just an infatuation and not all that exciting to him.
Now that (in my cute little example) we see that Nick (P.) NOW is listening to what he wants, following through, figuring out his thoughts, ideas, FEELINGS, and sorting through them as such...
Riddle me this, Is Anna or Nick more "Real"?
Let me try to put out an example to make this more clear; girl of random name (anna) meets boy of random name (jack). Anna is absaloutly infatuated (feeling) with Jack, she thinks the sun shines out of his ass, she is extremely excited when he even looks her way, and she claims she is "in love" with Jack. Rather than examining her feelings, thinking them through, figuring out who Jack actually is, etc... She throws herself at him blindly. Jack quickly spews out a few easy lies about loving her back, has sex with her and never talks to her again. Easy come, easy go.
How "real" is Anna? Is throwing yourself blindly to the curb at every new and exciting "feeling" all that admirable? Sounds like innocence and if repeated, stupidity to me. It doesn't take more than a day in middle school to know that infatuation is NOT love, and to see that the extreme adrenaline rush that comes with does not garuntee you everlasting happiness if you don't freaking find out who you are "in love" with first.
Now lets look at not-so-random-name (Nick). Lets pretend Nick is falling in love ((teehee)), how do you think it will happen? Will his heart flip-flutter at the sight of some new girl until he has to ask her out, and then, LO AND BEHOLD! He turns into a blushing emotional rollercoaster, just panting at her heels? ORRRR.....Do you think he might decide to himself one day that he really would like to have one person to spend his life with...and then some day (much later) he would find a woman who was intelligent, "real", and fit into his lifestlye....and then he would follow through?
'
(Idk Nick, you tell me!)
However, I'm guessing (just guessing) that Nick probably isn't all that keen on having one woman to deal with 24/7. So he probably is not exactly "looking", so, were a girl to come along who he was infatuated with, he (just guessing) would probably try to figure out why she made him feel that way, maybe get to know her and find out if she was actually all that great....figure out she is human, and than see that this is just an infatuation and not all that exciting to him.
Now that (in my cute little example) we see that Nick (P.) NOW is listening to what he wants, following through, figuring out his thoughts, ideas, FEELINGS, and sorting through them as such...
Riddle me this, Is Anna or Nick more "Real"?
February
22 at 10:47pm ·
"I've
gone out of my way this entire year to help you with all your ideas
and all your projects, with only the hope to benefit our friends."
I couldn't let this one go. No John, you want to help because you desperately and unending want people to like you. I stress desperately. You hear the comments and you see the looks back when you act like a childish asshole, and you think that by giving them alcohol or being "the playful cool guy" they'll just accept it and never give you as much shit as you deserve. Honestly, with this comment I could crack your idiot skull. The main reason I would ever call you a friend is because I thought you genuinely cared about other people. Now I see you just need them as a crutch to reinforce your pathetic life. You'll be lucky if your shit isn't sitting in the street waiting for you.
I couldn't let this one go. No John, you want to help because you desperately and unending want people to like you. I stress desperately. You hear the comments and you see the looks back when you act like a childish asshole, and you think that by giving them alcohol or being "the playful cool guy" they'll just accept it and never give you as much shit as you deserve. Honestly, with this comment I could crack your idiot skull. The main reason I would ever call you a friend is because I thought you genuinely cared about other people. Now I see you just need them as a crutch to reinforce your pathetic life. You'll be lucky if your shit isn't sitting in the street waiting for you.
February
22 at 10:49pm ·
P.s.
youa sucky D.J. Mr. John! :D <-----my and="" comment.="" font="" immature="" much="" rude="" thought-out="" very="">
February
22 at 10:52pm ·
Michele
Haas
I
realize that in entering this cozy little 'let's judge Nick's friends
in open court' blog that I'm opening my self up to the same ridicule
and attack that you feel is necessary to prove your points but
honestly I don't care. I'll take the literary rape of my person I'm
sure will follow. I'll be a 'real motherfucker' and step up and say
that though I'm sure I'll be seeing you a lot for what remains of
this semester, seeing as we run in the sames circle of friends, I
have no desire to be your friend and want you to know you shouldn't
think me yours. Now I could rant about all the reasons I've come to
this point with you but that's your forte not mine and I think I'd
truly dislike myself afterwards. You should just know that you fucked
up when you chose between Julie and John and then proceeded to rage
that it was his own fault. I'm not saying you chose the wrong person
(to each his own) but I'm saying you never needed to take it here.
Learn to listen and give consideration to your friends like they do
to you when you need it, and yes Nick you may be a person I don't
respect but you are a person with basic human social needs don't kid
yourself, and maybe you could have kept them both and not proceeded
to show everyone whose read this how ugly and condescending you can
be. Peace.
February
22 at 11:02pm ·
Now
now Helen, John is much better now than the trial by fire he had at
those parties. And I kinda have to totally agree with and like your
analysis Helen. Mad props.
February
22 at 11:09pm ·
Fair
fair, You are quite right, I have not attended any parties as of
late. Which is why that counts as quite immature and rude, and not
all that thought-out.
February
22 at 11:12pm ·
I
didn't choose between both of them. I chose both of them. I didn't
take it here, he did. I just wanted him to shut up, get over it, and
grow up. This is what happens when you challenge a child. I can't
help him getting emotional.
I gave a ride, and hung out for a couple hours after a party with a friend. John didn't like that, look at all the bullshit to follow.
I gave a ride, and hung out for a couple hours after a party with a friend. John didn't like that, look at all the bullshit to follow.
February
22 at 11:18pm ·
When
I read this insanely long dialogue (only because I was really bored)
there is only one thought that came to my mind, if nobody minds me
saying so: this is stupid. Completely and utterly stupid. I would
like to bring it to the attention of the rational people out there
that irrationality is sometimes a disease that cannot be cured and
the irrational (people) will many times remain that way, drawing
irrational conclusions from their irrational presumptions and further
justifying them with more irrational claims. Sometimes you cannot
change someone's opinion and are just wasting your time by trying to
do so. Nonetheless, I will attempt to give my own two cents.
Please don't get me wrong by my initial comment. I only think this conversation is stupid when I look at the timeframe it has encompassed. John, if you don't mind me saying, you dated Julie a year ago, maybe a bit less, but that is all over and done by now. It is dead, in fact, if that word holds more meaning for you. You are quite aware that you two will never be on those kinds of terms again like you were in the past. I'm sure you're also aware that both of you, due to some twist of fate, have been hanging out with many of the same people during the last year. I think you should realize, at least by this point, that it would be a better idea for you to let go. You said it yourself, you should get over her. So why not? The ability to have problems and deal with them, whether on a personal level or not, without causing grief for your friends is something you need to learn to do. That is called maturity. When you are mature, you don't push your problems onto other people and expect them to deal with them, you learn to handle them yourself. Please don't take this as an attack on you, John, because it is not. I just don't understand how you can be so adamantly against "making up" after all this time when you have seen how your drama affects the group dynamic (and apparently not in your favor). If you can't get over it, that's a personal decision for you to make, and in that case I feel I speak for everyone when I say "fuck off". Nobody (that I am friends with at least) enjoys the drama and strife that kind of situation brings. If you can get over it, then maybe you'll be on your way to becoming a rational human being.
Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying that I hate you, John, or that I don't think you can become rational, I just don't think the way you have been acting is conducive to a normal relationship between friends. Even you can see it's causing problems, maybe it's time for a change.
Further, to Nick, I don't exactly agree completely with your definition of friendship, I'm sure there are some semantic things I have issues with, but the overarching idea is something I can accept. The idea that friends have a sort of "utility" is something that everyone should realize is a truth of life. You call people your friends because of a certain reason, they provide you with a service, help you in times of need, or just purely provide you with an escape from the shit you have to deal with on a daily basis for a few hours. That is their "utility" as alien as the term may sound. If someone has no "utility" for you, they don't end up being your friend, and that's that.
On another note, as for friends being expendable, all I have to say is... well... DUH. If anyone cares to tell me right now, that if one of their friends turned out to be fickle, backstabbing, and in essence, not a true friend, they would just fall over and die is a liar. Of course friends are expendable. People are your friends because they provide you with some sort of happiness in your life, whatever that may be. If that happiness is taken away, what is the point of them being your friend anymore? None.
And as for anybody that is not driven by personal motives... what are you driven by? If you have no personal drive you will get nowhere in this life. Therefore the comment that Nick is driven by personal motives is not one I would take as an insult, if I were you Nick... I'd take it as a compliment. :)
Please don't get me wrong by my initial comment. I only think this conversation is stupid when I look at the timeframe it has encompassed. John, if you don't mind me saying, you dated Julie a year ago, maybe a bit less, but that is all over and done by now. It is dead, in fact, if that word holds more meaning for you. You are quite aware that you two will never be on those kinds of terms again like you were in the past. I'm sure you're also aware that both of you, due to some twist of fate, have been hanging out with many of the same people during the last year. I think you should realize, at least by this point, that it would be a better idea for you to let go. You said it yourself, you should get over her. So why not? The ability to have problems and deal with them, whether on a personal level or not, without causing grief for your friends is something you need to learn to do. That is called maturity. When you are mature, you don't push your problems onto other people and expect them to deal with them, you learn to handle them yourself. Please don't take this as an attack on you, John, because it is not. I just don't understand how you can be so adamantly against "making up" after all this time when you have seen how your drama affects the group dynamic (and apparently not in your favor). If you can't get over it, that's a personal decision for you to make, and in that case I feel I speak for everyone when I say "fuck off". Nobody (that I am friends with at least) enjoys the drama and strife that kind of situation brings. If you can get over it, then maybe you'll be on your way to becoming a rational human being.
Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying that I hate you, John, or that I don't think you can become rational, I just don't think the way you have been acting is conducive to a normal relationship between friends. Even you can see it's causing problems, maybe it's time for a change.
Further, to Nick, I don't exactly agree completely with your definition of friendship, I'm sure there are some semantic things I have issues with, but the overarching idea is something I can accept. The idea that friends have a sort of "utility" is something that everyone should realize is a truth of life. You call people your friends because of a certain reason, they provide you with a service, help you in times of need, or just purely provide you with an escape from the shit you have to deal with on a daily basis for a few hours. That is their "utility" as alien as the term may sound. If someone has no "utility" for you, they don't end up being your friend, and that's that.
On another note, as for friends being expendable, all I have to say is... well... DUH. If anyone cares to tell me right now, that if one of their friends turned out to be fickle, backstabbing, and in essence, not a true friend, they would just fall over and die is a liar. Of course friends are expendable. People are your friends because they provide you with some sort of happiness in your life, whatever that may be. If that happiness is taken away, what is the point of them being your friend anymore? None.
And as for anybody that is not driven by personal motives... what are you driven by? If you have no personal drive you will get nowhere in this life. Therefore the comment that Nick is driven by personal motives is not one I would take as an insult, if I were you Nick... I'd take it as a compliment. :)
February
22 at 11:26pm ·
Michele...,
I suppose there is no best way to go about this. You're one of the friends John considers himself closest to. I wonder why that is? You're someone who feels guilty or trashy for admitting she likes to fuck and make out with her friends, and he's someone who doesn't want to be judged for his uncontrollable feelings. I wonder the nature of your relationship; it really boggles the mind.
My friends, my actual friends, despite how many people are secretly or openly pissed off with how this has all transpired, are at the very very least honest with themselves. If I refrain from making a comment or calling you out on some bullshit that is so highly ridiculous I can barely stomach it, it's because of me saying, I'd prefer to talk about a situation instead of belittling and ridiculing it.
John, and now you, choose pretend this isn't the case. You think I get off on pointing out the obvious, and holding people to some remote standard that I still have to choke down as acceptable. This is why I don't consider you a friend. Fuck (have sex with) everyone, be upset with me because you're the kind of "true friend" that will confuse a situation for the sake of John's feelings. Rape your intelligence and life on the B school track. I don't give a fuck because you don't, not because it makes me feel good to surround myself with that level of ridiculousness and be the ugly pious asshole who's so much better than it all.
I can't exactly blame you for not reading previous posts, after all you don't want to be my friend, but I've digressed for hours about my basic human social needs, so if secretly to yourself you wanted to learn and know what you're talking about, you can go through and get into my mind.
I suppose there is no best way to go about this. You're one of the friends John considers himself closest to. I wonder why that is? You're someone who feels guilty or trashy for admitting she likes to fuck and make out with her friends, and he's someone who doesn't want to be judged for his uncontrollable feelings. I wonder the nature of your relationship; it really boggles the mind.
My friends, my actual friends, despite how many people are secretly or openly pissed off with how this has all transpired, are at the very very least honest with themselves. If I refrain from making a comment or calling you out on some bullshit that is so highly ridiculous I can barely stomach it, it's because of me saying, I'd prefer to talk about a situation instead of belittling and ridiculing it.
John, and now you, choose pretend this isn't the case. You think I get off on pointing out the obvious, and holding people to some remote standard that I still have to choke down as acceptable. This is why I don't consider you a friend. Fuck (have sex with) everyone, be upset with me because you're the kind of "true friend" that will confuse a situation for the sake of John's feelings. Rape your intelligence and life on the B school track. I don't give a fuck because you don't, not because it makes me feel good to surround myself with that level of ridiculousness and be the ugly pious asshole who's so much better than it all.
I can't exactly blame you for not reading previous posts, after all you don't want to be my friend, but I've digressed for hours about my basic human social needs, so if secretly to yourself you wanted to learn and know what you're talking about, you can go through and get into my mind.
February
22 at 11:40pm ·
JAYVO
HAS NOW ENTERED THE CHAT. BRACE FOR IMPACT. MAY CAUSE EXTREME
REALIZATION OF ONES SELF AND COULD POSSIBLY LEAD TO MIND ALTERING
STATUS OF MINDSETS. PLEASE SEEK OUT: SEAT BELTS, KLEENEX, AND BROWN
PAPER BAGS USED FOR HYPERVENTILATION IF SAID REALITY CHECK OCCURS.
February
22 at 11:47pm ·
Drei,
"...there is only one thought that came to my mind, if nobody minds me saying so: this is stupid. Completely and utterly stupid."
Lmao, god I agree soooo hard.
I'm so glad I there's nothing I have to argue against in all that Drei, lol thank you for another reasoned perspective.
We can go over definitions any time, it's rather hard to encompass everything especially when the topic becomes too far removed and disgruntled.
"...there is only one thought that came to my mind, if nobody minds me saying so: this is stupid. Completely and utterly stupid."
Lmao, god I agree soooo hard.
I'm so glad I there's nothing I have to argue against in all that Drei, lol thank you for another reasoned perspective.
We can go over definitions any time, it's rather hard to encompass everything especially when the topic becomes too far removed and disgruntled.
February
22 at 11:48pm ·
Michele
Haas
Please
don't tag me. I don't want to be associated with this shit.
February
22 at 11:48pm ·
See
that thing I said about personal responsibility? You just missed an
opportunity right there Michele.
February
22 at 11:51pm ·
Michele
Haas
Whatever.
I don't need to justify myself to you. I know who and what I am I
when I falter I have real friends that let me know hard core. Take
care of your own shit before you take on everyone elses.
February
22 at 11:53pm ·
Nick,
I would be glad to go over definitions with you at some point, and it's my pleasure to provide you with my logical (at least I think so) opinion. Unfortunately the reason I fail to comment on these most of the time is that the arguments end up being so long and convoluted that I just have no idea where to start unravelling the crap most people write down and fail to see their own fallacies in, much less do I have the motivation to do so. Rather, I prefer conversations in person but alas, I am not in b-town to be able to do so and unfortunately I don't think all the above parties would be willing to get together for a nice sit-down conversation about this topic. Even if that were the case I get the feeling things would be thrown, and broken (note that the "things" thrown and broken could be people as well as possessions) and I can't honestly say that faced with utter stupidity I would not get the urge to throw things :: read people :: myself. :P
And just so I'm clear, John, I never said you don't have the right to still be upset with Julie. That is your right as a being with thought, be it rational or not. However, you do not have the right to impose your opinions on others or to blame them for not taking your side. If your personal opinions were just your own and stayed there, nobody would have an issue. The fact that you get upset and ruin the mood of the group sometimes is what gets people to be upset with you like this. We have no right to make you change your personal opinion. Conversely you have no right to cause problems within the group because your personal opinion differs from that of everyone else. Further, you have no right to be shitty to Julie because you are still "upset" with her. Those actions are immature, childish, and do not bode well for you.
I would be glad to go over definitions with you at some point, and it's my pleasure to provide you with my logical (at least I think so) opinion. Unfortunately the reason I fail to comment on these most of the time is that the arguments end up being so long and convoluted that I just have no idea where to start unravelling the crap most people write down and fail to see their own fallacies in, much less do I have the motivation to do so. Rather, I prefer conversations in person but alas, I am not in b-town to be able to do so and unfortunately I don't think all the above parties would be willing to get together for a nice sit-down conversation about this topic. Even if that were the case I get the feeling things would be thrown, and broken (note that the "things" thrown and broken could be people as well as possessions) and I can't honestly say that faced with utter stupidity I would not get the urge to throw things :: read people :: myself. :P
And just so I'm clear, John, I never said you don't have the right to still be upset with Julie. That is your right as a being with thought, be it rational or not. However, you do not have the right to impose your opinions on others or to blame them for not taking your side. If your personal opinions were just your own and stayed there, nobody would have an issue. The fact that you get upset and ruin the mood of the group sometimes is what gets people to be upset with you like this. We have no right to make you change your personal opinion. Conversely you have no right to cause problems within the group because your personal opinion differs from that of everyone else. Further, you have no right to be shitty to Julie because you are still "upset" with her. Those actions are immature, childish, and do not bode well for you.
February
23 at 12:02am ·
If
anyone, and i mean anyone, wants to start a "Hate on Nick P"
Facebook group..It should Be ME. WHY? What makes me so special?
Because I am Woman and maybe even Man enough to admit any discord
btwn Nick P and myself. Those who feel the need to rant directly over
facebook seem to have had these feelings for quite sometime. Dont be
faulty and pretend these are new feelings You are having and then use
this public forum to execute ur most inner thoughts.
Cut and dry. I've dealt with this situation several times in my life and what did I do... I got over it. Hell ive even had friends that i was LIVING with date ppl i was involved with and what did i do..i got over it. Its about adultdom. The main issue of this forum is that noone wants to take into account just how simple the "issue" is. There is no issue-its made up compared to what realities lay themselves before us such as:
Most of the people posting in this i said MOST not ALL, will talk to tico upon his return knowing what he did to me. IM ALREADY OVER IT. I accept that that is how most people function. This situation on the other hand is nonexistent in my mind because it is a waste of human expressionism.
Nick P wants you all to realize that. He is calling attention to ur character flaw and that breaks you-He technically hasnt done nething. Didnt touch the girl has known her since high school etc etc. Ur mad at urselves not Nick.
P.S. I will post no further thought via this forum. Unlike most who have been posting I do not hide behind the safety of facebook to communicate my feelings. If you want to grow mentally and learn somethings you may not like about urself come chat. I wont totally massacre you, Ill give it to you as light as possible. 2600 dekist. Txts wont work neither will calling, just meet me.
Cut and dry. I've dealt with this situation several times in my life and what did I do... I got over it. Hell ive even had friends that i was LIVING with date ppl i was involved with and what did i do..i got over it. Its about adultdom. The main issue of this forum is that noone wants to take into account just how simple the "issue" is. There is no issue-its made up compared to what realities lay themselves before us such as:
Most of the people posting in this i said MOST not ALL, will talk to tico upon his return knowing what he did to me. IM ALREADY OVER IT. I accept that that is how most people function. This situation on the other hand is nonexistent in my mind because it is a waste of human expressionism.
Nick P wants you all to realize that. He is calling attention to ur character flaw and that breaks you-He technically hasnt done nething. Didnt touch the girl has known her since high school etc etc. Ur mad at urselves not Nick.
P.S. I will post no further thought via this forum. Unlike most who have been posting I do not hide behind the safety of facebook to communicate my feelings. If you want to grow mentally and learn somethings you may not like about urself come chat. I wont totally massacre you, Ill give it to you as light as possible. 2600 dekist. Txts wont work neither will calling, just meet me.
February
23 at 12:18am ·
aww
damn... but Jayvo i'm so far away! I'll come visit as soon as
possible :)
February
23 at 12:27am ·
Jvo,
I wish people could talk, but if they can't even take quotes and
address a specific issue on screen, I hardly think they'll manage a
discussion. I'm hedging my bets that they'll sink back into their
relative holes and continue playing pretend.
February
23 at 1:08am ·
Michele,
you allude to this "shit" that exists in some ephemeral
realm that doesn't translate to me. I point out your actions, your
feelings, your statements, you guys retort with "Nick, you're
more fucked up for reasons I can't really explain than ANY of us."
Don't explain yourself to me, I already get you, you don't like
that.
If we were friends I would've told you that fucking around isn't something to be sad about. If we were friends I would've been able to explain to you the definition of hypocrite and trusted that you'd start to man up and adopt different behaviors. If we were friends you'd be the kind of person who actually believes the shit she says and could stick by her "real friend" via something as simple as being tagged in a note where she's arguing on his behalf.
You fail to realize how much of "my own shit" I've managed to take care of, and out of some sick sense of sympathy? empathy? hope? desperation? or combo of that and more try to find someway to relate it to you. And still I'll get shit on and called a bad friend. Still I get purposely misunderstood and avoided. Do you know how sickening this is?
If we were friends I would've told you that fucking around isn't something to be sad about. If we were friends I would've been able to explain to you the definition of hypocrite and trusted that you'd start to man up and adopt different behaviors. If we were friends you'd be the kind of person who actually believes the shit she says and could stick by her "real friend" via something as simple as being tagged in a note where she's arguing on his behalf.
You fail to realize how much of "my own shit" I've managed to take care of, and out of some sick sense of sympathy? empathy? hope? desperation? or combo of that and more try to find someway to relate it to you. And still I'll get shit on and called a bad friend. Still I get purposely misunderstood and avoided. Do you know how sickening this is?
February
23 at 1:35am ·
Nick,
i haven't once said a single thing you didn't deserve. You have gone
to far with this. I offer some semi-constructive criticism, and all
you can do is attack every world i say while incorporating personal
and uncalled for insults. Your pathetic.
February
23 at 4:33am ·
I've
had my fill of your empty responses, so I'll be quiet for
you...::silence::
February
23 at 10:25am ·
Although
this is late I'm going to comment anyways, mostly because I know all
parties and can help John understand Nick a little better.
First things first I'm going to sum up everyone's dialogue, so here we go:
Bryon is being Bryon and I didn't read Andrei's comments.
*Helen:* Emotion can cause us to do irrational things but it doesn't mean you cannot learn for the mistakes based on emotion. My favorite part of her comment, "she thinks the sun shines out of his ass" hahaha
*Michele* is very upset and defending her relationship with John. She is being what her and John consider to be a "good friend."
*Julie* wants everyone to be friends and buy Beatles' Albums.
*Luke* is defending emotions, what I consider the greatest and only reason to exist. I was a one point going to write a book for adolescences that outline every possible way to avoid common mistakes and speed up emotional maturity; however, life is nothing without experiencing it for yourself.
I know Nick sticks to his logic (everything Nick has said here he has said before) and that is the tool that Nick uses to make decisions. Believe it or not me and Nick are on the same page in a lot of respects and I understand the shit he had to go through to be who he is today, although I will say I do disagree with how harsh Nick is at times...
*Nick* even though it can be painful to watch, you have to let people make mistakes for themselves, it's how people truly learn. This is best left for another discussion.
*Javon:* I believe that a face to conversion is always best, but I must apologize for my distance; even though you all know this is not normally the case. She also empathizes that being civil with someone despite differences is a part of maturity.
*John:* I'm not here to attack you and Nick (in his own way) isn't either. Nick wants everyone to better understand themselves and skip the bullshit, yesterday.
That being said, John, having a problem with Julie is not productive and from what I've seen it has divided people. John it is natural to want your friends to have the same enemies as you. Nevertheless, I have made it a point for some time now to individually evaluate situations and slap a friend upside the head if they had done something stupid and are bitching about the outcome. You are in that position. You don't have to be stoic to be civil with those around you.
I want you (John) to be as honest as possible as to why Julie being around you truly bothers you.
First things first I'm going to sum up everyone's dialogue, so here we go:
Bryon is being Bryon and I didn't read Andrei's comments.
*Helen:* Emotion can cause us to do irrational things but it doesn't mean you cannot learn for the mistakes based on emotion. My favorite part of her comment, "she thinks the sun shines out of his ass" hahaha
*Michele* is very upset and defending her relationship with John. She is being what her and John consider to be a "good friend."
*Julie* wants everyone to be friends and buy Beatles' Albums.
*Luke* is defending emotions, what I consider the greatest and only reason to exist. I was a one point going to write a book for adolescences that outline every possible way to avoid common mistakes and speed up emotional maturity; however, life is nothing without experiencing it for yourself.
I know Nick sticks to his logic (everything Nick has said here he has said before) and that is the tool that Nick uses to make decisions. Believe it or not me and Nick are on the same page in a lot of respects and I understand the shit he had to go through to be who he is today, although I will say I do disagree with how harsh Nick is at times...
*Nick* even though it can be painful to watch, you have to let people make mistakes for themselves, it's how people truly learn. This is best left for another discussion.
*Javon:* I believe that a face to conversion is always best, but I must apologize for my distance; even though you all know this is not normally the case. She also empathizes that being civil with someone despite differences is a part of maturity.
*John:* I'm not here to attack you and Nick (in his own way) isn't either. Nick wants everyone to better understand themselves and skip the bullshit, yesterday.
That being said, John, having a problem with Julie is not productive and from what I've seen it has divided people. John it is natural to want your friends to have the same enemies as you. Nevertheless, I have made it a point for some time now to individually evaluate situations and slap a friend upside the head if they had done something stupid and are bitching about the outcome. You are in that position. You don't have to be stoic to be civil with those around you.
I want you (John) to be as honest as possible as to why Julie being around you truly bothers you.
February
23 at 5:18pm ·
After
all I've ranted about people needing to shut up and stop getting
involved (cuz really, was there any reason for anyone besides Nick
and John to be having this discussion? No. Was there any reason it
even needed to be on facebook? No. And I've told Nick that, but
anyway) I will finally comment to say that Jake George is the only
person who's butted in who I have not gotten annoyed with. Granted, I
think there are some things in the above statement that aren't part
of the core issue or agree with people I disagree with - whatever. I
am so not here to get involved in the fray or argue or even discuss
or whatever. But at least Jake George can say something that doesn't
piss me off cuz he's at least trying and largely or ate least
remotely understanding where everyone is coming from, and I thought
he needed to be commended. Thank you, Jake George. Come back
soon.
Everyone else can continue to shut the fuck up - like I've been saying for probably 24 hours by now.
Everyone else can continue to shut the fuck up - like I've been saying for probably 24 hours by now.
