2 Players 4 the
Price of 1
Note:
if you don't have the time to read it, por favor come back later.
This
is the guy I email a lot of my questions and thoughts too and the
first part of this is his blog. In it her refers to me and one of our
talks and i just see this back and forth as really significant in the
fine tune defining of why i think the things i do and say the things
i say. I know its long so sue me but you should've known that before
you clicked. If you have any input to anything he says or my responses i'm telling you I live for comments and the guy says he
loves questions.
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him: I
just finished MacArthur's "Hard To Believe". It's a Hard to
Read book. It's been awhile since I picked up something that hurt
good. It's a good feeling. Kinda tickles.
Also I've added a link to M'Cheyne's Daily Bible Readings to the list on the right. If you click it, it takes you to today's selections. If you're not familiar with how M'Cheyne's works, the ones labeled "Family" are to be read by the husband to the family, and the ones labeled "Secret" are read individually. If you decide to start this, pick a time and regularly get everybody prepared to read the word, every night, at that time.
So now it's time for me to start the next book in this fat stack sitting on my dresser, which is "A Christian Manifesto". From Hermano Urn's report of the book it should shake me up a little. Good eatin.
I'm noticing more that most people who bear the title Christian aren't living up to their descriptions. There is a numbing sea of apathy amongst American Christians that is as far as the eye can see. I'm disturbed by the lack of ambition toward improving spiritual life and there are a huge amount of people who are content to just bench warm at church. I may have said this on here already, I can't remember.
"Hard to Believe" hit on this fact pretty heavily. He doesn't waste any time getting to the point of saying that he doesn't make any assumptions about peoples' salvation. Never assume that a person who says they're saved really is.
I guess the way to describe how we should be towards people like this is to be what I could call "fire tenders". We should be working on stirring people up and keep them hot so they don't fall out and cool off. Instead, a lot of people are practicing a form of spiritual isolationism, forgoing fellowship in favor of treating church like a roll call is being taken. Blah.
In other news, I'm in contact with a young man who started off coming across as a quasi-atheist with some questions about the Bible. After a late-night visit to his blog I've noticed that he's more or less calling down anathema against everything God-related. I almost--ALMOST--left a comment... but chose not to because his commenting reader base seems to support this view and it's not my intent to make him look like a twit in front of his friends. One of the views is that the Bible shouldn't be trusted because if even one contradiction shows up, the whole thing is trash. I told him that if the Bible has been around this long after being attacked the same way for hundreds of years, it's probably pretty stable if people are still trusting in it. So he points me to the verses Deuteronomy 27:22 and Genesis 20:11-12. To save some time, here they are:
Deut 27:22 Cursed be anyone who lies with his sister, whether the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.' And all the people shall say, 'Amen'
Gen 20:11-12 11 Abraham said, "I did it because I thought, There is no fear of God at all in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife. 12 Besides, she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father though not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife.
He didn't even quote the verses themselves, just the references. I'm assuming he thinks there's a contradiction here because a rule instated in Deuteronomy appears to have been broken with God's sanction before it had even been invented... It would be like being arrested for selling whiskey 20 years before the Prohibition.
In a way, I'm thankful that people like him and the American Atheists organization exist. They have a tendency of shaking the fakers off that don't have true faith. I don't have a problem saying the Bible is true because there's some kind of God-given information inside me that I can't trace logically and can't just tell anybody about either. It's just THERE. I can't deny it, and I'd be a fool if I did after seeing what all He's done in my life.
Also, I've been pressed lately on the topic of Christian persecution. I don't know why. I read these stories about how Christians were killed for their beliefs and I wonder, what would I do if that started happening here? It's a distasteful thing to think about but it's a possibility. What would you do if someone held a gun to your child's head and threatened to shoot if you didn't recant your beliefs? This BUGS me. Not because of the situation but because I honestly don't know what I'd do. Even Peter denied Christ 3 times in a pretty short time span and he was RIGHT THERE with Him.
Today's Prayer:Lord... there is a ruckus coming and I can feel it. I would ask that you watch over all of us who truly pursue the faith and strive to live for Your glory. It's a hard road, which is to be expected. We have no idea what in particular is on this road, but You do. It's one thing to say that we're ready and another to actually believe it. I don't know where I'm at on this, but I know that You have the power to strengthen us for what's ahead. I'm asking now Lord, that You please give us that thousand-yard stare that goes along with focusing on the eternal things so that the quick lives we live here aren't what we focus on. In Jesus' name, Amen.
Also I've added a link to M'Cheyne's Daily Bible Readings to the list on the right. If you click it, it takes you to today's selections. If you're not familiar with how M'Cheyne's works, the ones labeled "Family" are to be read by the husband to the family, and the ones labeled "Secret" are read individually. If you decide to start this, pick a time and regularly get everybody prepared to read the word, every night, at that time.
So now it's time for me to start the next book in this fat stack sitting on my dresser, which is "A Christian Manifesto". From Hermano Urn's report of the book it should shake me up a little. Good eatin.
I'm noticing more that most people who bear the title Christian aren't living up to their descriptions. There is a numbing sea of apathy amongst American Christians that is as far as the eye can see. I'm disturbed by the lack of ambition toward improving spiritual life and there are a huge amount of people who are content to just bench warm at church. I may have said this on here already, I can't remember.
"Hard to Believe" hit on this fact pretty heavily. He doesn't waste any time getting to the point of saying that he doesn't make any assumptions about peoples' salvation. Never assume that a person who says they're saved really is.
I guess the way to describe how we should be towards people like this is to be what I could call "fire tenders". We should be working on stirring people up and keep them hot so they don't fall out and cool off. Instead, a lot of people are practicing a form of spiritual isolationism, forgoing fellowship in favor of treating church like a roll call is being taken. Blah.
In other news, I'm in contact with a young man who started off coming across as a quasi-atheist with some questions about the Bible. After a late-night visit to his blog I've noticed that he's more or less calling down anathema against everything God-related. I almost--ALMOST--left a comment... but chose not to because his commenting reader base seems to support this view and it's not my intent to make him look like a twit in front of his friends. One of the views is that the Bible shouldn't be trusted because if even one contradiction shows up, the whole thing is trash. I told him that if the Bible has been around this long after being attacked the same way for hundreds of years, it's probably pretty stable if people are still trusting in it. So he points me to the verses Deuteronomy 27:22 and Genesis 20:11-12. To save some time, here they are:
Deut 27:22 Cursed be anyone who lies with his sister, whether the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.' And all the people shall say, 'Amen'
Gen 20:11-12 11 Abraham said, "I did it because I thought, There is no fear of God at all in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife. 12 Besides, she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father though not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife.
He didn't even quote the verses themselves, just the references. I'm assuming he thinks there's a contradiction here because a rule instated in Deuteronomy appears to have been broken with God's sanction before it had even been invented... It would be like being arrested for selling whiskey 20 years before the Prohibition.
In a way, I'm thankful that people like him and the American Atheists organization exist. They have a tendency of shaking the fakers off that don't have true faith. I don't have a problem saying the Bible is true because there's some kind of God-given information inside me that I can't trace logically and can't just tell anybody about either. It's just THERE. I can't deny it, and I'd be a fool if I did after seeing what all He's done in my life.
Also, I've been pressed lately on the topic of Christian persecution. I don't know why. I read these stories about how Christians were killed for their beliefs and I wonder, what would I do if that started happening here? It's a distasteful thing to think about but it's a possibility. What would you do if someone held a gun to your child's head and threatened to shoot if you didn't recant your beliefs? This BUGS me. Not because of the situation but because I honestly don't know what I'd do. Even Peter denied Christ 3 times in a pretty short time span and he was RIGHT THERE with Him.
Today's Prayer:Lord... there is a ruckus coming and I can feel it. I would ask that you watch over all of us who truly pursue the faith and strive to live for Your glory. It's a hard road, which is to be expected. We have no idea what in particular is on this road, but You do. It's one thing to say that we're ready and another to actually believe it. I don't know where I'm at on this, but I know that You have the power to strengthen us for what's ahead. I'm asking now Lord, that You please give us that thousand-yard stare that goes along with focusing on the eternal things so that the quick lives we live here aren't what we focus on. In Jesus' name, Amen.
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Me: I got those, i sent a long email before i brought up the contradiction
idea though. i trashed it so if u didn't get it or deleted it then
ya....
I
really don't want to be considered anything. "Quasi-Atheist"
"Christian" or otherwise. Any definition implies that you
know the answers or assume you know the answers. Not my style.
More
than contradictions I'm finding as significant or the ways by which
the bible has become the book we know today. I suggest you read
"Misquoting Jesus" and "Letter to a Christian Nation"
if you haven't
I
read your blogs and the fact of the matter is anything you call
"God's beauty, plan, part of his design" is all justified
by the same reasoning of assumption that those who claim the same
things to be unorganized or coincidental.
The
problem with Christianity for me is the same problem with every
religion. It provides one path, all the rules, right or wrong their
assumed right simply because. Faith in anything by definition is
blind, and on any level of that which you cannot see (in every
sense/definition/perception of the "see") you
can't make claims.
I
just really don't get how people justify themselves when they stay in
the dark about the things factually eating away at their beliefs. I
read that the the Gods of olympus were created when the elite smart
ones of the time fully realized how meaningless and sheer pointless
their lives were without something else pulling the strings. and when
i look around and here what people then said and though, and how
people now speak and think, it all just seems like one endless cycle
of repetition. No one solves anything. No one changes, they all dive
into a facet of their insecurities that keeps them in fear.
I
try to empathize. I put myself into situations and try to play out in
my head what i would be thinking at the time. I know what it feels
like to be the happiest, more beyond depressed, perverted, goofy,
helpful, hateful person and in the end they all play out to this
static being that just is. Nothing provides enlightenment but me and
what i can make myself believe. And knowing this i have a hard time
and outright don't believe people that say they are so caught up in
what they don't know and can't define as the one true path to their
salvation. Simple human curiosity would drive one mad if they
couldn't settle on something, personally contending with all too
often.
Like
i've said before, information is exponentially compounding. there's
no more probable a time that they dig up Jesus than today. And what
then? (outlandish but u get what i'm getting at)
The
more i think the less sense of self I have as well. what is anyone
but a reflection? i don't even trust my likes and dislikes anymore. I
know it sounds stupid. Do i have friends or people i use as a means
to kill time? do i like all the expensive crap i have or did i just
have money to blow explaining why i never use or think about it
all. The only reason I'm finding for living is because its
the in thing to do. And what better place than to grab a "convert"
than in a vulnerable place like that in their mind. Promises of love
and bliss and all you have to do is renounce your current state of
confused thought. Christianity comes off as just a refined cult with
better punch.
I
find myself more often forgiving and forgetting (more often forgetting) people who "sin" what have you against me. It
just seems insignificant. I simply can't blame them for living, i
don't know their background, and frankly i don't give a crap what
they have to say to the same extent that they care to listen to
me. then i think, if i can so easily brush life's b/s, be chill
during times of drama and duress, and play the role of happy go lucky
therapist friend to the people i know, after becoming "self
absorbed" and thoughtful why are the members of so many
religions having such a hard time to exhibit the same traits?
i
said it in my 2nd most recent blog. (been writing a lot lately) people
are afraid of themselves. They don't want to think about what it
would be like to be on the brink of suicide or murder and not be able
to stop. they don't want to think about the taboo and weird. But i do
and have. And after this mental acid trip i get to form strong routed
opinions about those people and why their actions were justified by
them in their own right. Then people all want to point fingers and
blame. They want to asses punishment and find out who's responsible.
And the laundry list of who influenced what and who said this and
urged that could go all the way back till you could try and blame
God. And because of that fact, because no one wants to worry about
themselves and find that balance in their own mind that allows them
to explore and quell the urge to know, everyone is responsible for
everything. The phrase "born into sin" came just came
into my mind. I guess i have the backward method of understanding why
the bible says what it says. I don't read verse and believe it
because its there. I live through something and recall a line a heard
and can now see why whoever put it there new it would be key in the
effort to persuade and convert. All the reasoning behind it was
already thought about, magnified, and worked into something you avert
to without ever having to really think about it before its used in an argument. And i'm what? some 18 year old kid? not a scholar or great
thinker with some agenda. And in some sense, its a "simple"
enough process for me.
I'll
never be able to throw out the view I have now that provides, as hard
as it may be to believe, so much more for the whole and not just the
select. I'm aware that I may come off as uniformed or confusing
sometimes and probably won't be completely understood unless you read
some of the same things i have.
And
yep, you got me on the contradiction thing which i'm happy about. Now
i have one less opportunity to sound ignorant. I guess you can try to
clear up the discrepancies in the gospels for me too if you want lol.
You
can comment or respond to anything I say with anything and everything
you want. You can spend your life pointing out this and that and
explaining your views going blue in the face as they lower your
coffin. Its all i ask of anyone who calls themselves alive and human.
My friends arn't concerned about me looking stupid or twitish nor am
I. I just think about you though, lighting the fire, being like those
speed driven pastors of the mega evangelical churches. All the time
and effort, the reasoning and stress, happiness and heartache. What
will it matter to you when you get to heaven? Are you going to care
about the ones you tried to help that are now the beloved burning
sufferers. God's going to take away any grief or guilt you could have
isn't he? He'll make you forget you ever new those people, friends or
family that just didn't make the cut. So what's it matter? But of
course its not your place to think about such things right?
Just
as no one can say anything about you or me without being one of us,
no one can truly say anything about God and his "plan."
You agreed people can't trust themselves and be a gauge on
their views and beliefs. People can barely if even grasp
themselves, but their ready to tackle God.
Also
note, i'm pretty specific in my words. I didn't say the bible was
trash if a contradiction showed up. I said something claiming to be
perfect is invalidated of that perfection fact in such a case. I also
tend to read that way and the last few lines of your paragraph in response to me I hope are a generalization about the instance and not
exactly how they come across.
If
you truly believe the Lord blesses those who truly pursue their faith
then to you i would think I'm viewed with Jesus in my back pocket. I
can't believe that something like life isn't significant. Isn't valid
of focus. Its in this life you get to "praise his name, spread
the word, and show the love" and that dosn't matter? If its
nothing more than a blip in time....I can't even find the words to
describe the level of absolute pointlessness for existence I'm
vibing if those were views I so strongly held. And yet you
say and pray it so easily? I really don't get it.
If
it were my kid with the gun to its head, renounce or else you know
what i'd be thinking? Why the hell does this guy even care? He made
the trip over here. He took his faith and allowed it to get him
pissed off and power hungry. He's so blind to what's actually
happening he has a gun to my kids head. He knows the power of fear.
He knows because he's so completely entangled with it. He thinks he's
God, the version he relates to at least. Life is in his hands and he
wants to make it my burden to save it. And for what? words? lies? he
wants a lie or the satisfaction of winning? Pull it. Either way
nothing is won or really lost. Especially if your a Christian right?
Your sure your child is in heaven laughing up just waiting for you.
What's so scary? This life isn't important.
