This was a fight between (no longer) friends. Petty and annoying at the time. I find it hilarious today.
Monday,
February 22, 2010 at 6:30am
We
will never form the kind of productive and thoughtful society that I
fantasize about because of our feelings. More specifically, your
feelings. Men and women are fickle. In my experience, my “friends,”
you all, generally tend to see a different reality between us than I
do. My life doesn’t depend on you. We either provide each other
with some utility, have a history together, or kind of think the same
in enough situations. I like this, I appreciate this, and I will keep
it going as long as you want. The second my friendship to you is
dependent on your feelings, we’re not going to work. I can’t hate
the people you hate, merely because you hate them. I won’t damage
my happiness or relationship with someone because you hold a grudge.
That isn’t something a “true friend” who “respects” you
would ask of you let alone expect without reason. Let’s highlight a
scenario I feel relevant to the topic at hand.
Chris choked
out Jvo. That one girl you let break your heart. One scenario, an act
of physical violence was perpetrated against a girl, who’s my
friend, for a slew of horrible reasons and childish bullshit. It’s
reasonable for me to expect friends of mine to assess that kind of
behavior as inappropriate and a reason to not want to associate with
that person. I don’t hang with people who attack women, if you do,
explain to me why and how the relationship is justified. I don’t
endorse that behavior, I don’t respect that behavior. The latter
scenario involves a boy and girl, some bad actions, but at the end of
the day, you are responsible for your feelings about it. She didn’t
stab you, you let her in. She didn’t make it her goal to hurt you
by getting into a relationship, nor does she care to continue talking
about it until you start drama by random insulting and bullshit
texts.
Jvo, if and when you read this, you would be justified
in giving me shit, not being my friend, and whatever else that
distanced you and me if I was still cool with Chris, brought him
around, and was trying to rub it in your face. Let’s remember, he
choked you out. Correct me if I’m wrong Jvo, but you still talk to
most if not all of your exes, except the one who’s tried to
maintain his “best friend” status with Chris. I’m sure some bad
shit had to go down for you to break up with them, but I know you see
little utility in crying about it and trying to make you or your
other friends hate them because you do.
Now you might be
saying to yourself, “Nick, you dated Steev, are you still talking
to her? You guys the best of friends?” And I would say, all too
predictable, yet understandable. What you may not know is that I’ve
told Steev that I had this crazy idea one day in the bathroom of Casa
Brava that me and her could one day be cool again once I got over the
fact that I did the same thing as the boy above, I let her in and
tried to trust. I don’t blame Steev for that, I blame her for lying
to me and being a generally fake as shit person, but I separate her
being responsible about that fucked up-ness about herself, and my
fucked up-ness about myself. This is why I have no respect for the
games people try to play with me. I’ve been there, I get where
you’re coming from, but it’s easy for you to simply state that I
don’t care and am not a real enough friend for you. Okay, fuck off
and die, I wash my hands of you.
Conversely, if you’re not
retarded, give me the credit I deserve, and accept good reasoning,
we’re usually happy together. As they say somewhere in the
interwebs, zomg! What a concept. It’s crazy too, that I’ve gotten
into it pretty heavily with other generally reasonable people, and
even still manage to reach a middle ground even if it takes longer
than I’d like. So, yes, I know how and why I’m conducting myself
and where I’m at with my friends. No, I will not help you project
your feelings and insecurities onto those relationships. Yes, I have
at least one standing example of how you should conduct yourself and
your life. No, I don’t necessarily respect or accept why you would
“choose” to behave otherwise. This is why I’m a real person,
and you are not. It’s not my fault
Also, I really hope this
is one of those blogs that everyone manages to read, because I want
to stress this point any time I’m talking at you. And yes, for
whatever reason it is at you when you conduct yourself unreasonably.
When I go out of my way to explain something to you, that is me being
friendly. For someone who doesn’t give a fuck, it’s hard to
really explain how annoying it is to watch myself type words you know
you understand and are going to deny and argue back anyway. It’s
viewed as pointless to me to try and sum up in a blog or two, or a
few texts, the entirety of why you’re wrong or why I do in fact get
where you’re coming from, but don’t agree. Why? This is part of
my friendship towards you. When I take the time to denigrate my time
for the sake of your understanding, you should learn to appreciate
it. You don’t have to and that’s okay; I get on much quicker
without treating you as a speed bump, but if you want to take it for
granted, I’ll correct the discrepancy.
I want to make sure
that I preface this next part with a disclaimer. If there are any
questions, you really need to ask, because I’m almost certain it’s
going to get at least marginally confused or come out not perfect and
result in some negative feelings. The topic is need verses want. The
statement is, I don’t need you. I don’t like it when people need
me. I prefer to exist in a world of wants. I want there to be a
rational actor behind the desire, a good reason behind the feeling,
before it’s validated. If you are my friend it’s because I want
to be friends, not because we are desperately attached to each other
for leeching and feeling coddling. If I’m your friend who has any
control over your feelings, you need to distance yourself from me.
I’m good for what I’m good for, you’re good for what you’re
good for, when we both recognize that, we get along fine. If I give
you a ride, pay for a movie, let you eat my food, or let you take any
of my time or resources for any reason whatsoever, that’s my
utility towards you. That’s what I have to offer. That’s the only
reason I matter. Any feelings you have about me or towards me, are
yours to work out and/or discuss with me. It isn’t my goal to
outright fuck with or hurt those feelings, but I will, and you will
blame me.
I would think it stands to reason that if we are
both providing each other with something, the feelings would tip in
favor of positive and we never have to delve into the deep dark world
of doubt and painful thoughts. ::shudders:: Not everyone agrees with
this though. They want to pretend I care about their feelings in the
same way they do. I don’t because I can’t do anything to change
them. I can’t tell you how compelling they are for you, but I can
say I’ve had compelling feelings. I won’t tell you I respect them
for who they make you hate and what they help you enjoy, I’ll tell
you I understand where you’re coming from, and have made a
different choice. Your feelings matter to you. You deal with them.
I’ll talk to you sure, I’ll try to help as long as you care to be
friends, but you won’t drag me down with them. It works the other
way too, no matter how happy you are, if I just got back from getting
gang raped, I’m probably not going to enjoy your mood. But I still
understand happiness and know I can get back there.
This is
the kind of friend I am. This is not the kind of friend everyone is,
or that most people are even capable of, at least in their own minds.
Obviously, if you’ve managed to refrain from deleting me, the
things I say must tend to make sense, or at least give you fuel to
argue somewhere beyond my ears all the reasons I’m wrong. I don’t
surround myself with people who always have to agree with me, they
just have to be reasonable when they don’t.
”But
Nick, your ‘reasoning’ always seems settle on something that
leaves me feeling angry or you feeling self-righteous….”
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Written
about a week ago · Comment · LikeUnlike
when
will you stop hiding behind the illusion that you are "real?"
February
22 at 11:13am ·
you
say that when people don't agree with you they have to be
reasonable... people make irrational decisions everyday but it isn't
necessarily wrong. people make these decisions based on deeper
feelings... feelings that you only get to by taking the risk of
getting hurt... sure you can have the feeling of friendship and sorts
with little risk but ... See Morewhen you dive into deeper feelings
such as love there is a high risk of hurt, anger, hate, a many
negative feelings... but yet people still choose to go that
direction. although it may seem "unreasonable" people still
do it... meaning there has to be some possible outcome, no matter how
small it is, that ends well... it seems as though you close yourself
off from these deeper feelings because there is that high risk of
negative side effects.
i wont speak for jvo but the reason she
most likely still talks to her exes is because on some level there
was a deeper bond and although it has come to an end there will
always be traces of that bond in her everyday life... weather she
likes it or not, or anyone for that matter, when you have a deeper
relationship it effects everyday of the rest of your life... it
changes you as a person. this is not necessarily a bad thing its just
an "effect" but by staying in contact with these people it
helps to come to terms with the events that have transpired... when
'deeper feelings' are involved and a break up occurs it hurts... but
by staying in contact those feelings are more likely to get better
and you are able to find out why it happened and most of all you are
able to focus on the things that were good.
you may not agree
with this but its how i feel... it may be irrational to attempt to
have a deeper more intimate relationship but i believe that it is
worth it... it is worth it to risk being hurt and becoming angry to
possibly and maybe have a relationship on the next level.
February
22 at 11:48am ·
Mr.
Peterson, you attempt to make the argument that irrational decision
aren't always the wrong choice. My one argument which has no rebut is
that in being irrational, you are automatically in the wrong hence it
being irrational. Rational is the only right choice and path, but
rationality is not to be confused with morality which is in a totally
separate realm.
February
22 at 12:41pm ·
John,
when you will grow up and understand enough to take it for granted?
February
22 at 12:44pm ·
Luke,
I
would have to say that I don't think deeper feelings are necessarily
irrationality, if anything a hyper rationality concerning a world you
create for yourself. I don't think it is unreasonable to want or feel
like you're in "love", but if the feelings get blamed, when
feelings have to be manifested and dwelled upon through thought,
that's when it becomes unreasonable.
I can understand why you
think I close myself off. I would have to say that this isn't exactly
the case, but I take much care and guard against letting my feelings
go awry. More importantly, I try not to let them help me persuade
myself to make bad decisions. Every person I meet and try be friends
with is a risk. Some throw tantrums and are eager to piss away that
friendship, some calmly and logically explain to me what they think
or how we may differ and why. You really have no idea what that means
to me, thank you.
Your thoughts on Jvo's reasons are part of
the reason I used her as an example. I agree.
But ya,
ultimately I don't think it's irrational to want a "deeper,"
whatever that means to the individual, relationship.
February
22 at 12:57pm ·
well
nick, i agree that there is some risk in creating a friendship... my
point is that the more feelings that are put into a relationship, the
higher the risk of hurt.
also, i'm not saying that you close
yourself of, just that you are very careful about feelings you
show... more so than others... not that that is a bad thing, some
people show more emotion and some people are more
resistant
byron,
i'm only saying that from an outside
perspective many decisions that are based on feelings such as love or
hate seem irrational but to the person making the decision may seem
totally rational... its completely based on perspective.
February
22 at 1:04pm ·
Things
you don't do when you're being reasonable:
1. Text "bitch"
to your ex when you take the fact that she came to a party with her
boyfriend as a threat.
2. Get pissed at one person, me of all
fucks, for their interaction with your ex when you've known how I've
felt about the situation every time the topic has come up.
(Disavowing our friendship when you first heard me say I'm still
going to be her friend would have kept you consistent and reliable.)
Not to mention, another real mother fucker like Luke, who invited her
to his party will probably never hear a word out of you.
3.
Refrain from actually answering direct and useful questions like
"tell me why I should hate the people you hate" with
abstract and indirect bullshit like "real friends" would
"respect" me more than that.
I'm real because no
matter your petty feelings, I'm still going to call you a whiny
little girl when you act like a fucking whiny little girl. Pouting,
needing "warnings," random unprovoked texts, flyers in the
the dorm halls, etc. You don't become a topic of interest or care
until you put your bullshit out there for people to get pissed at it.
This is what's happening. This is the reality. If you have something
more clear, or more helpful to add, you know how and what you have to
say, but you're hung up on some bullshit insecurities and immaturity.
I don't play these games. I won't give you any room. That's the best
I can do as a real friend.
February
22 at 1:07pm ·
and
that would be the difference between how john and jvo handle the
presence of an ex boyfriend/girlfriend
jvo handles it and
comes to terms with it weather she likes it or not rather than since
you dont like the situation you just get mad every time she
appears... deal with it, move on, get over it, just do whatever it is
you need to do to to come to terms and stop getting shitty when no
one else hates her like you do
February
22 at 1:14pm ·
Luke,
Aha,
see this is an interesting point where we may differ. I don't think
there are "amounts," if you will of feelings in general
that get put into things. I am the deepest of friends with people who
were well established individuals and thinkers well before I knew
them. The more they realize, are open towards, independently come to
and discuss with me, the closer I am with them. The more "risks"
I'll take in telling them things and being honest with them.
I
think what most people describe as compelling love for example, is a
perpetual thought pattern. I love this person, they are so beautiful,
I feel not alone, they are so funny, that reminds me of them, that
smells like them, I'm afraid or angry at the idea of not being with
them...so no so forth. Each thing an independent enough thought
enough for an opportunity to break the cycle. You may not be able to
erase the physical things that engaged when a memory or thought about
that person comes up, but how you think about those feelings and
what's happening to you can garner better decisions.
February
22 at 1:18pm ·
well
i agree with the last part "you think about those feelings and
what's happening to you can garner better decisions" part of
life is using the things that dont go the way you would have liked to
help make sure that doesnt happen again.
i'm not saying that there
are "amounts" of feeling but there is an amount of effort
that you purse each feeling with and sometimes to make a feeling or
relationship to become stronger, considerable effort is needed and
sometimes it may be worth it other times it may not
February
22 at 1:22pm ·
I
can agree with that basically. I would just be a little confused on
the metric used to gauge and talk about the strength of that feeling.
February
22 at 1:25pm ·
Mr.
Peterson, I glad we can both agree that the rational choice can seem
irrational and it is based perspective or moral philosophy. You
however itiallily made the case for irrationality being the right in
some cases, you simply changed you position in your clarification,
however I like you new position and am glad you came to that
conclusion. Kudos to you!, not many people would even make the
attempt to change a bad position.
February
22 at 1:59pm ·
that
is an excellent question nick... maybe voltage created in the brain
from thinking times 1/3 of the calories burned during effort divided
by the amount of resources used (ie money/goods) so it would be some
number with the unit caloric watts per dollar... :-P
February
22 at 2:34pm ·
Unprovoked?
Nick, you instigate way more than people care to argue. i shouldn't;
but i still have a problem with julie, and you know this. A "real"
mother fucker wouldn't be a dick about it. And after everything i've
done for u the least you could do for me is warn me. I don't mind
that she was there, i mind that you brought her and that the first
thing you said to me was "get over it". Obviously you don't
give a fuck about me. I don't talk shit about you, yet you have so
much time to insult me to my ex and my friends. Fuck You.
February
22 at 5:31pm ·
I've
been telling you to get over it, and I'm still correct for doing so.
You started being a dick, your refusal to stop behaving immaturely is
what asked me to be a dick. How petty a thing to be someone's ride to
a party. I'm done explaining shit to you.
February
22 at 7:46pm ·
Let's
take a vote: anyone who thinks John should get over it...and less I
point out this line. "i shouldn't; but i still have a problem
with julie, and you know this." An admittance that he is wrong
and still manages to think "get over it" is the worst thing
you can say towards someone in that situation.
Or, should he
hold his grudge and continue to give me shit because I have a
relative tough love and little care to be bogged down by the past
attitude.
1. Get over it
2. Keep bitching
Yes, this
is interactive, it'd be great if you all responded.
February
22 at 8:04pm ·
To
be quite honest i am fond of option #2...
But nick, this isn't
about Julie. She may have been the start of this argument, but it's
about you... All this fighting is because of how much of an ass you
are and how little respect you show your friends. I'm not moving into
the house because you have proven to me that your personal motives
drive you. I've gone out of my way this entire year to help you with
all your ideas and all your projects, with only the hope to benefit
our friends. You on the other hand judge your friends based upon
their (quoting you) "utility." Now that i have seen the
true extent of this belief, i feel it best to stop pretending you are
who you say you are... (real).
"Real" is just an
adjective you have associated with yourself to give you a false sense
of power. Your reality is not the only one, and it is not the best
one. It may have its upsides, but it lacks the true values and faith
friendships actually entail. Luke was right when implying that there
can be deeper connections between friends, that you personally can
not break down and completely understand. Your emotional withdrawal
from those close to you only shows that ultimately you can
considering them all expendable. ... See More
Treat everyone
how you may, but your influence over our friends is slipping as we
are all beginning to go our own way. Reaching out to Julie and new
people can only do so much until they too realize how little you
actually care about them as individuals (rather than pawns in your
chess game). Over all I feel bad for you, I mean I may be emotional
and insecure at times, but at least I know I have people like
Michele, Laura, and KT that will always care. The day your thoughts
get the best of you; who will actually care?
February
22 at 9:40pm ·
I
do believe that despite what one's own personal definition of 'real'
may be, real is essentially a term that can be coined in favor of
being true to ones own self. We are all, in said reality, real and I
don't believe that that is even an arguing point. As long as you can
be honest with yourself and where your morals/priorities lie, there
is no sense in trying to prove yourself otherwise. Nick is very real.
He understands (while not everyone may agree with the views,
connections and relationships that he forms and thoroughly supports)
where he stands amongst those he associates with and how he views the
world. I am very real. I as well know who I can consider my friends,
acquaintances, and otherwise, and on what level I can connect or
choose to connect with them. Likewise, John is real. Damnit, trying
to disprove someone's own reality is like having the nonsensical
arguement that 'this spoon does not really exist.'
Naturally,
ones own reality and sense of realness is going to regulate how we
associate with one another. On a personal level, I have no problem
with the theory of forgive and forget because I tend to see the
goodness in most people that makes me want to continue associating
with them.
The prospect of making meeting new people, new ideas,
new faces simply astounds me. Submerging myself in others ideas of
the world and of friendships and relationships.
It is unfortunate
that someone could expect something of another in return for simple
favors, however. Given the circumstances, I am never ceased to be
amazed that a 'true' friend could ask another friend to disown their
friend and think it a plausable idea simply because he believes he is
of more worth value than the other. The reason we form friendships is
because each person means something to us. We maintain these
friendships because each new person contributes something to our
lives that wasn't there before. It is only when this contribution
becomes a nusense and in-fact causes us or conversely, causes the
other person, hardship rather than pleasure that we choose to break
these bonds.
Alas, it becomes difficult to find the line between
friendship and possession when one tries to put a price on their
acquaintances.
February
22 at 10:01pm ·
p.s.
not to make light of a 'serious' situation or anything but I almost
broke out into song...why can't weeeeeeeee be friiieeends, why can't
weeeeeeeee be friends, why can't we be friiieieieieiends. XD
February
22 at 10:10pm ·
"I'm
not moving into the house because you have proven to me that your
personal motives drive you."
I'm pretty sure I talk about
my selfishness damn near every day. I don't want you to move into the
house; I'm not a babysitter.
"You on the other hand judge
your friends based upon their (quoting you) "utility."
Yes,
and I base my views on myself as having a utility to them as well.
You read that whole paragraph right? I fail to see how this
negative.
"It may have its upsides, but it lacks the true
values and faith friendships actually entail."
Hating
Julie for you is not the kind of faith I want. Not that I want
faith.
"Your emotional withdrawal from those close to you
only shows that ultimately you can considering them all
expendable"
Only as expendable as they view me.
"Treat
everyone how you may, but your influence over our friends is slipping
as we are all beginning to go our own way."
Did I not
just have a conversation with you about getting away from people and
starting a new thing? Again, what else can you pull from your ass to
haphazardly frame as an attack? And say they are going their own way.
Good! I don't want fucking zombie friends.
"....they too
realize how little you actually care about them as individuals."
I
only care about individuals. There are so few and frequently so
depressingly flawed, but at least they're individuals. You can keep
as many insecure, scared, and hypocritical friends as you want to
make you feel comfortable.
"The day your thoughts get
the best of you; who will actually care? "
If my thoughts
ever get to me as badly as you've shown your feelings get to you I
only hope one of them has the balls to recite the mantra "whiny
little bitch."
February
22 at 10:28pm ·
Julie,
When
I talk about real I mean honesty and personal responsibility.
So,
when I say something like "John, I'm going to be friends with
Julie" I take responsibility for my friendship with you and
being honest with him. Contrast that with him admitting he shouldn't
have a problem with you, but will maintain one anyway for attention
and drama, and there seems to be an obvious disconnect. Yes, this is
how a real child acts. Yes, this is "real" drama for people
with no spine and common sense about how to take care of themselves.
But it's not a real individual I can respect. I am not trying to
disprove his reality, I'm calling his actions within it ridiculous
and pointless, as evidenced by his own statements.
"On a
personal level, I have no problem with the theory of forgive and
forget because I tend to see the goodness in most people that makes
me want to continue associating with them."
And you'd
think someone who has such a "huge deal" with you would
take advantage of such a philosophy, work it out, and learn to shut
the fuck up.
"...when one tries to put a price on their
acquaintances."
Apparently John only thinks he's worth
some building experience, homemade wine, lights, and a bar. And you
know what, he's doing a hell of a job showing it.
February
22 at 10:37pm ·
I
must say (1.) and I agree wholeheartedly with Julie. Whats is real?
But being true to yourself, your (gasp) feelings, and your thoughts.
And actually listening to your thoughts and feelings instead of being
a mindless zombie who swings with whatever the crowd swings with.
(Baa! BAA!) I think Nick is very "real", and can brag about
that as much as he damn well pleases. I think that Nick probably
listens to his feelings harder or better than most people do, and
this is why he may seem so disconnected from them.
Let me try
to put out an example to make this more clear; girl of random name
(anna) meets boy of random name (jack). Anna is absaloutly infatuated
(feeling) with Jack, she thinks the sun shines out of his ass, she is
extremely excited when he even looks her way, and she claims she is
"in love" with Jack. Rather than examining her feelings,
thinking them through, figuring out who Jack actually is, etc... She
throws herself at him blindly. Jack quickly spews out a few easy lies
about loving her back, has sex with her and never talks to her again.
Easy come, easy go.
How "real" is Anna? Is throwing
yourself blindly to the curb at every new and exciting "feeling"
all that admirable? Sounds like innocence and if repeated, stupidity
to me. It doesn't take more than a day in middle school to know that
infatuation is NOT love, and to see that the extreme adrenaline rush
that comes with does not garuntee you everlasting happiness if you
don't freaking find out who you are "in love" with
first.
Now lets look at not-so-random-name (Nick). Lets
pretend Nick is falling in love ((teehee)), how do you think it will
happen? Will his heart flip-flutter at the sight of some new girl
until he has to ask her out, and then, LO AND BEHOLD! He turns into a
blushing emotional rollercoaster, just panting at her heels?
ORRRR.....Do you think he might decide to himself one day that he
really would like to have one person to spend his life with...and
then some day (much later) he would find a woman who was intelligent,
"real", and fit into his lifestlye....and then he would
follow through?
'
(Idk Nick, you tell me!)
However, I'm
guessing (just guessing) that Nick probably isn't all that keen on
having one woman to deal with 24/7. So he probably is not exactly
"looking", so, were a girl to come along who he was
infatuated with, he (just guessing) would probably try to figure out
why she made him feel that way, maybe get to know her and find out if
she was actually all that great....figure out she is human, and than
see that this is just an infatuation and not all that exciting to
him.
Now that (in my cute little example) we see that Nick
(P.) NOW is listening to what he wants, following through, figuring
out his thoughts, ideas, FEELINGS, and sorting through them as
such...
Riddle me this, Is Anna or Nick more "Real"?
February
22 at 10:47pm ·
"I've
gone out of my way this entire year to help you with all your ideas
and all your projects, with only the hope to benefit our friends."
I
couldn't let this one go. No John, you want to help because you
desperately and unending want people to like you. I stress
desperately. You hear the comments and you see the looks back when
you act like a childish asshole, and you think that by giving them
alcohol or being "the playful cool guy" they'll just accept
it and never give you as much shit as you deserve. Honestly, with
this comment I could crack your idiot skull. The main reason I would
ever call you a friend is because I thought you genuinely cared about
other people. Now I see you just need them as a crutch to reinforce
your pathetic life. You'll be lucky if your shit isn't sitting in the
street waiting for you.
February
22 at 10:49pm ·
P.s.
youa sucky D.J. Mr. John! :D <-----my and="" comment.="" font="" immature="" much="" rude="" thought-out="" very="">
February
22 at 10:52pm ·
Michele
Haas
I
realize that in entering this cozy little 'let's judge Nick's friends
in open court' blog that I'm opening my self up to the same ridicule
and attack that you feel is necessary to prove your points but
honestly I don't care. I'll take the literary rape of my person I'm
sure will follow. I'll be a 'real motherfucker' and step up and say
that though I'm sure I'll be seeing you a lot for what remains of
this semester, seeing as we run in the sames circle of friends, I
have no desire to be your friend and want you to know you shouldn't
think me yours. Now I could rant about all the reasons I've come to
this point with you but that's your forte not mine and I think I'd
truly dislike myself afterwards. You should just know that you fucked
up when you chose between Julie and John and then proceeded to rage
that it was his own fault. I'm not saying you chose the wrong person
(to each his own) but I'm saying you never needed to take it here.
Learn to listen and give consideration to your friends like they do
to you when you need it, and yes Nick you may be a person I don't
respect but you are a person with basic human social needs don't kid
yourself, and maybe you could have kept them both and not proceeded
to show everyone whose read this how ugly and condescending you can
be. Peace.
February
22 at 11:02pm ·
Now
now Helen, John is much better now than the trial by fire he had at
those parties. And I kinda have to totally agree with and like your
analysis Helen. Mad props.
February
22 at 11:09pm ·
Fair
fair, You are quite right, I have not attended any parties as of
late. Which is why that counts as quite immature and rude, and not
all that thought-out.
February
22 at 11:12pm ·
I
didn't choose between both of them. I chose both of them. I didn't
take it here, he did. I just wanted him to shut up, get over it, and
grow up. This is what happens when you challenge a child. I can't
help him getting emotional.
I gave a ride, and hung out for a
couple hours after a party with a friend. John didn't like that, look
at all the bullshit to follow.
February
22 at 11:18pm ·
When
I read this insanely long dialogue (only because I was really bored)
there is only one thought that came to my mind, if nobody minds me
saying so: this is stupid. Completely and utterly stupid. I would
like to bring it to the attention of the rational people out there
that irrationality is sometimes a disease that cannot be cured and
the irrational (people) will many times remain that way, drawing
irrational conclusions from their irrational presumptions and further
justifying them with more irrational claims. Sometimes you cannot
change someone's opinion and are just wasting your time by trying to
do so. Nonetheless, I will attempt to give my own two cents.
Please
don't get me wrong by my initial comment. I only think this
conversation is stupid when I look at the timeframe it has
encompassed. John, if you don't mind me saying, you dated Julie a
year ago, maybe a bit less, but that is all over and done by now. It
is dead, in fact, if that word holds more meaning for you. You are
quite aware that you two will never be on those kinds of terms again
like you were in the past. I'm sure you're also aware that both of
you, due to some twist of fate, have been hanging out with many of
the same people during the last year. I think you should realize, at
least by this point, that it would be a better idea for you to let
go. You said it yourself, you should get over her. So why not? The
ability to have problems and deal with them, whether on a personal
level or not, without causing grief for your friends is something you
need to learn to do. That is called maturity. When you are mature,
you don't push your problems onto other people and expect them to
deal with them, you learn to handle them yourself. Please don't take
this as an attack on you, John, because it is not. I just don't
understand how you can be so adamantly against "making up"
after all this time when you have seen how your drama affects the
group dynamic (and apparently not in your favor). If you can't get
over it, that's a personal decision for you to make, and in that case
I feel I speak for everyone when I say "fuck off". Nobody
(that I am friends with at least) enjoys the drama and strife that
kind of situation brings. If you can get over it, then maybe you'll
be on your way to becoming a rational human being.
Don't get
me wrong though. I'm not saying that I hate you, John, or that I
don't think you can become rational, I just don't think the way you
have been acting is conducive to a normal relationship between
friends. Even you can see it's causing problems, maybe it's time for
a change.
Further, to Nick, I don't exactly agree completely
with your definition of friendship, I'm sure there are some semantic
things I have issues with, but the overarching idea is something I
can accept. The idea that friends have a sort of "utility"
is something that everyone should realize is a truth of life. You
call people your friends because of a certain reason, they provide
you with a service, help you in times of need, or just purely provide
you with an escape from the shit you have to deal with on a daily
basis for a few hours. That is their "utility" as alien as
the term may sound. If someone has no "utility" for you,
they don't end up being your friend, and that's that.
On
another note, as for friends being expendable, all I have to say
is... well... DUH. If anyone cares to tell me right now, that if one
of their friends turned out to be fickle, backstabbing, and in
essence, not a true friend, they would just fall over and die is a
liar. Of course friends are expendable. People are your friends
because they provide you with some sort of happiness in your life,
whatever that may be. If that happiness is taken away, what is the
point of them being your friend anymore? None.
And as for
anybody that is not driven by personal motives... what are you driven
by? If you have no personal drive you will get nowhere in this life.
Therefore the comment that Nick is driven by personal motives is not
one I would take as an insult, if I were you Nick... I'd take it as a
compliment. :)
February
22 at 11:26pm ·
Michele...,
I
suppose there is no best way to go about this. You're one of the
friends John considers himself closest to. I wonder why that is?
You're someone who feels guilty or trashy for admitting she likes to
fuck and make out with her friends, and he's someone who doesn't want
to be judged for his uncontrollable feelings. I wonder the nature of
your relationship; it really boggles the mind.
My friends, my
actual friends, despite how many people are secretly or openly pissed
off with how this has all transpired, are at the very very least
honest with themselves. If I refrain from making a comment or calling
you out on some bullshit that is so highly ridiculous I can barely
stomach it, it's because of me saying, I'd prefer to talk about a
situation instead of belittling and ridiculing it.
John, and
now you, choose pretend this isn't the case. You think I get off on
pointing out the obvious, and holding people to some remote standard
that I still have to choke down as acceptable. This is why I don't
consider you a friend. Fuck (have sex with) everyone, be upset with
me because you're the kind of "true friend" that will
confuse a situation for the sake of John's feelings. Rape your
intelligence and life on the B school track. I don't give a fuck
because you don't, not because it makes me feel good to surround
myself with that level of ridiculousness and be the ugly pious
asshole who's so much better than it all.
I can't exactly
blame you for not reading previous posts, after all you don't want to
be my friend, but I've digressed for hours about my basic human
social needs, so if secretly to yourself you wanted to learn and know
what you're talking about, you can go through and get into my mind.
February
22 at 11:40pm ·
JAYVO
HAS NOW ENTERED THE CHAT. BRACE FOR IMPACT. MAY CAUSE EXTREME
REALIZATION OF ONES SELF AND COULD POSSIBLY LEAD TO MIND ALTERING
STATUS OF MINDSETS. PLEASE SEEK OUT: SEAT BELTS, KLEENEX, AND BROWN
PAPER BAGS USED FOR HYPERVENTILATION IF SAID REALITY CHECK OCCURS.
February
22 at 11:47pm ·
Drei,
"...there
is only one thought that came to my mind, if nobody minds me saying
so: this is stupid. Completely and utterly stupid."
Lmao,
god I agree soooo hard.
I'm so glad I there's nothing I have
to argue against in all that Drei, lol thank you for another reasoned
perspective.
We can go over definitions any time, it's rather
hard to encompass everything especially when the topic becomes too
far removed and disgruntled.
February
22 at 11:48pm ·
Michele
Haas
Please
don't tag me. I don't want to be associated with this shit.
February
22 at 11:48pm ·
See
that thing I said about personal responsibility? You just missed an
opportunity right there Michele.
February
22 at 11:51pm ·
Michele
Haas
Whatever.
I don't need to justify myself to you. I know who and what I am I
when I falter I have real friends that let me know hard core. Take
care of your own shit before you take on everyone elses.
February
22 at 11:53pm ·
Nick,
I
would be glad to go over definitions with you at some point, and it's
my pleasure to provide you with my logical (at least I think so)
opinion. Unfortunately the reason I fail to comment on these most of
the time is that the arguments end up being so long and convoluted
that I just have no idea where to start unravelling the crap most
people write down and fail to see their own fallacies in, much less
do I have the motivation to do so. Rather, I prefer conversations in
person but alas, I am not in b-town to be able to do so and
unfortunately I don't think all the above parties would be willing to
get together for a nice sit-down conversation about this topic. Even
if that were the case I get the feeling things would be thrown, and
broken (note that the "things" thrown and broken could be
people as well as possessions) and I can't honestly say that faced
with utter stupidity I would not get the urge to throw things :: read
people :: myself. :P
And just so I'm clear, John, I never said
you don't have the right to still be upset with Julie. That is your
right as a being with thought, be it rational or not. However, you do
not have the right to impose your opinions on others or to blame them
for not taking your side. If your personal opinions were just your
own and stayed there, nobody would have an issue. The fact that you
get upset and ruin the mood of the group sometimes is what gets
people to be upset with you like this. We have no right to make you
change your personal opinion. Conversely you have no right to cause
problems within the group because your personal opinion differs from
that of everyone else. Further, you have no right to be shitty to
Julie because you are still "upset" with her. Those actions
are immature, childish, and do not bode well for you.
February
23 at 12:02am ·
If
anyone, and i mean anyone, wants to start a "Hate on Nick P"
Facebook group..It should Be ME. WHY? What makes me so special?
Because I am Woman and maybe even Man enough to admit any discord
btwn Nick P and myself. Those who feel the need to rant directly over
facebook seem to have had these feelings for quite sometime. Dont be
faulty and pretend these are new feelings You are having and then use
this public forum to execute ur most inner thoughts.
Cut and
dry. I've dealt with this situation several times in my life and what
did I do... I got over it. Hell ive even had friends that i was
LIVING with date ppl i was involved with and what did i do..i got
over it. Its about adultdom. The main issue of this forum is that
noone wants to take into account just how simple the "issue"
is. There is no issue-its made up compared to what realities lay
themselves before us such as:
Most of the people posting in this i
said MOST not ALL, will talk to tico upon his return knowing what he
did to me. IM ALREADY OVER IT. I accept that that is how most people
function. This situation on the other hand is nonexistent in my mind
because it is a waste of human expressionism.
Nick P wants you
all to realize that. He is calling attention to ur character flaw and
that breaks you-He technically hasnt done nething. Didnt touch the
girl has known her since high school etc etc. Ur mad at urselves not
Nick.
P.S. I will post no further thought via this forum.
Unlike most who have been posting I do not hide behind the safety of
facebook to communicate my feelings. If you want to grow mentally and
learn somethings you may not like about urself come chat. I wont
totally massacre you, Ill give it to you as light as possible. 2600
dekist. Txts wont work neither will calling, just meet me.
February
23 at 12:18am ·
aww
damn... but Jayvo i'm so far away! I'll come visit as soon as
possible :)
February
23 at 12:27am ·
Jvo,
I wish people could talk, but if they can't even take quotes and
address a specific issue on screen, I hardly think they'll manage a
discussion. I'm hedging my bets that they'll sink back into their
relative holes and continue playing pretend.
February
23 at 1:08am ·
Michele,
you allude to this "shit" that exists in some ephemeral
realm that doesn't translate to me. I point out your actions, your
feelings, your statements, you guys retort with "Nick, you're
more fucked up for reasons I can't really explain than ANY of us."
Don't explain yourself to me, I already get you, you don't like
that.
If we were friends I would've told you that fucking
around isn't something to be sad about. If we were friends I would've
been able to explain to you the definition of hypocrite and trusted
that you'd start to man up and adopt different behaviors. If we were
friends you'd be the kind of person who actually believes the shit
she says and could stick by her "real friend" via something
as simple as being tagged in a note where she's arguing on his
behalf.
You fail to realize how much of "my own shit"
I've managed to take care of, and out of some sick sense of sympathy?
empathy? hope? desperation? or combo of that and more try to find
someway to relate it to you. And still I'll get shit on and called a
bad friend. Still I get purposely misunderstood and avoided. Do you
know how sickening this is?
February
23 at 1:35am ·
Nick,
i haven't once said a single thing you didn't deserve. You have gone
to far with this. I offer some semi-constructive criticism, and all
you can do is attack every world i say while incorporating personal
and uncalled for insults. Your pathetic.
February
23 at 4:33am ·
I've
had my fill of your empty responses, so I'll be quiet for
you...::silence::
February
23 at 10:25am ·
Although
this is late I'm going to comment anyways, mostly because I know all
parties and can help John understand Nick a little better.
First
things first I'm going to sum up everyone's dialogue, so here we
go:
Bryon is being Bryon and I didn't read Andrei's
comments.
*Helen:* Emotion can cause us to do irrational
things but it doesn't mean you cannot learn for the mistakes based on
emotion. My favorite part of her comment, "she thinks the sun
shines out of his ass" hahaha
*Michele* is very upset and
defending her relationship with John. She is being what her and John
consider to be a "good friend."
*Julie* wants
everyone to be friends and buy Beatles' Albums.
*Luke* is
defending emotions, what I consider the greatest and only reason to
exist. I was a one point going to write a book for adolescences that
outline every possible way to avoid common mistakes and speed up
emotional maturity; however, life is nothing without experiencing it
for yourself.
I know Nick sticks to his logic (everything Nick
has said here he has said before) and that is the tool that Nick uses
to make decisions. Believe it or not me and Nick are on the same page
in a lot of respects and I understand the shit he had to go through
to be who he is today, although I will say I do disagree with how
harsh Nick is at times...
*Nick* even though it can be
painful to watch, you have to let people make mistakes for
themselves, it's how people truly learn. This is best left for
another discussion.
*Javon:* I believe that a face to
conversion is always best, but I must apologize for my distance; even
though you all know this is not normally the case. She also
empathizes that being civil with someone despite differences is a
part of maturity.
*John:* I'm not here to attack you and Nick
(in his own way) isn't either. Nick wants everyone to better
understand themselves and skip the bullshit, yesterday.
That
being said, John, having a problem with Julie is not productive and
from what I've seen it has divided people. John it is natural to want
your friends to have the same enemies as you. Nevertheless, I have
made it a point for some time now to individually evaluate situations
and slap a friend upside the head if they had done something stupid
and are bitching about the outcome. You are in that position. You
don't have to be stoic to be civil with those around you.
I
want you (John) to be as honest as possible as to why Julie being
around you truly bothers you.
February
23 at 5:18pm ·
After
all I've ranted about people needing to shut up and stop getting
involved (cuz really, was there any reason for anyone besides Nick
and John to be having this discussion? No. Was there any reason it
even needed to be on facebook? No. And I've told Nick that, but
anyway) I will finally comment to say that Jake George is the only
person who's butted in who I have not gotten annoyed with. Granted, I
think there are some things in the above statement that aren't part
of the core issue or agree with people I disagree with - whatever. I
am so not here to get involved in the fray or argue or even discuss
or whatever. But at least Jake George can say something that doesn't
piss me off cuz he's at least trying and largely or ate least
remotely understanding where everyone is coming from, and I thought
he needed to be commended. Thank you, Jake George. Come back
soon.
Everyone else can continue to shut the fuck up - like
I've been saying for probably 24 hours by now.
